Selling Time: Marlins Trade Deadline Discussion

[Erick]

I wanna know how you expect to unload Nolasco's $11.5 and Buck's $6 mil next year. I can't see anyone taking on that. As I said elsewhere, they'd have to attach Hanley to Nolasco, and maybe say Anibal to Buck, so someone would go for the prime player and just take on the deadweight to go for it, ala Beckett/Lowell Cabrera/Willis. As for Bell, I'm not sure that is even plausible. That would be extremely difficult and calculated moves, because you'd have to do them all. You couldn't just do one and not the other, as that wouldn't clear the books.

They'd also kill the fan base, regardless if it's a smart baseball decision. I'm not even sure immediately reinvesting that into a BJ Upton, Shaun Marcum, Jake Westbrook, David Ross, and Johnny Gomes types in the offseason could fix the damage.

Point is, they really can't firesale. Move Infante and Choate and get a young CF and a projectable AA reliever? Huge win. Sign a 4th starter, veteran LF, and a veteran reliever in the offseason, and pray to god Hanley and Reyes revert to awesome, Stanton and Morrison keep improving, and everyone else chips in enough to be relevant. Not much else they can do realistically even if on paper, the "get every contract off the books besides Reyes and Buerhle" is the best financial plan.

I agree with your player evaluations.

Regarding the business side, we differ in the sense that I believe you do everything possible to put together a winner and forget about fans' opinions.

1. At the end of the day, fans really only care to see a winning product on the field.

2. This team doesn't have many marketable players, at this point. You have Stanton and then you have 2/3 (Reyes, Buehrle) of the exciting offseason because everyone basically hates Heath Bell now anyway. Hanley is not well-liked. Hanley basically can do no right with many fans after the lollygag incident. From a business/marketing standpoint, I don't think the fans, in general, would care at all about losing Hanley Ramirez.

The rest of the guys are just quality big leaguers (at least some mentioned, some are not even that), which I don't think damage much from a business perspective. The true fan will likely always remain a true fan and the casual fan won't care about this because it's not like any of these players have ever won anything with the Marlins.

As it is, they have to do something. It's the first year in the new ballpark and the team is not selling out because the product on the field is mediocre.
--------------------

Homes, he's having a career high in being un-fucking-lucky.

Why is it so hard for people (you and Swift) to digest this?

Just because you're unlucky doesn't mean you're good/valuable. That's basically Swifty's point (or so I think) when he posts about John Buck. He's being paid a lot of money for a player who has no value at this time.

And, really, he's only had one productive season in his big league career if we're being realistic and looking at the bottom line.

[Namaste]

Heath Bell is not "basically" hated.

He is toenail cheese. The toenail cheese that is not easily eradicated.
--------------------

I agree with your player evaluations.

Regarding the business side, we differ in the sense that I believe you do everything possible to put together a winner and forget about fans' opinions.

1. At the end of the day, fans really only care to see a winning product on the field.

2. This team doesn't have many marketable players, at this point. You have Stanton and then you have 2/3 (Reyes, Buehrle) of the exciting offseason because everyone basically hates Heath Bell now anyway. Hanley is not well-liked. Hanley basically can do no right with many fans after the lollygag incident. From a business/marketing standpoint, I don't think the fans, in general, would care at all about losing Hanley Ramirez.

The rest of the guys are just quality big leaguers (at least some mentioned, some are not even that), which I don't think damage much from a business perspective. The true fan will likely always remain a true fan and the casual fan won't care about this because it's not like any of these players have ever won anything with the Marlins.

As it is, they have to do something. It's the first year in the new ballpark and the team is not selling out because the product on the field is mediocre.
--------------------


Just because you're unlucky doesn't mean you're good/valuable. That's basically Swifty's point (or so I think) when he posts about John Buck. He's being paid a lot of money for a player who has no value at this time.

And really, he's only had one productive season in his big league career if we're being realistic and looking at the bottom line.

He has no value because he's on pace to have the worst BABIP ever.

Commmmmmmooooooonnnnnnn, guy

[Anonymous]

I said the same thing, tomorrow is the most important game of the season. We lose 2 or 3 to the Cubs and the towel is getting thrown in.
--------------------
Not too far away ??? What have you been watching ? They absolutely cannot hit and the bullpen is garbago.

Baseball.

[HUGG]

Heath Bell is not "basically" hated.

He is toenail cheese. The toenail cheese that is not easily eradicated.
--------------------


He has no value because he's on pace to have the worst BABIP ever.

Commmmmmmooooooonnnnnnn, guy

Find me a contender who 1) can afford to take on Buck's salary and 2) where he would be an upgrade over their current situation at C.

You can't find one.

And I'm one of the ones who still likes him.

[Jay]

I still think no matter what we should be buyers.

[Jorge18]

Ankiel was designated for assignment. Possibly we go after him to fill a need in the OF?

[emkayseven]

.228/.282/.411

and that's actually an improvement over last year

so, no thanks

[Erick]

Heath Bell is not "basically" hated.

He is toenail cheese. The toenail cheese that is not easily eradicated.
--------------------


He has no value because he's on pace to have the worst BABIP ever.

Commmmmmmooooooonnnnnnn, guy

His career OPS+ is 87. He's not valuable, .BABIP issues aside.

[lou]

Trade No. 1: Miami Marlins third baseman Hanley Ramirez, starting pitcher Anibal Sanchez and second baseman Omar Infante to Detroit Tigers for third baseman Nick Castellanos, starting pitcher Jacob Turner and outfielder Delmon Young


The Tigers can't afford to let prime seasons from Justin Verlander, Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder go to waste. They have already bet big on 2012, so they shouldn't stop short now.

Ramirez hasn't settled in well at third base and probably could use a change of scenery, and Detroit might be a good place for him to start over. Of course, with Cabrera at third, he'd have switch positions again, but the Tigers could get creative in an effort to get him on board: They could offer him a chance to move back to shortstop in 2013 if he's willing to move to the outfield for the rest of this season. Ramirez had been outspoken about wanting to remain at shortstop before this season, and the organization could decline Jhonny Peralta's team option for next season to give Ramirez another shot at his preferred position.

An outfield experiment might be the best use of Ramirez's physical skills anyway, and he certainly would be an upgrade over Young, who's inept out there and doesn't hit enough to make up for it. (The Marlins would be forced to take him back simply so Jim Leyland wouldn't play him anymore.)

Sanchez is an underrated hurler who would fit in well behind Verlander, but he's headed for a big payday in free agency and might be too pricey for the Marlins to sign this offseason. Including him in the deal to get Castellanos and Turner would be better than letting him walk for draft-pick compensation during the winter.

Infante, who broke in with the Tigers, might look like a throw-in, but given Detroit's awful production from second base (.198/.277/.274 AVG/OBP/SLG) this season, just getting a league-average player would be a dramatic upgrade. The price for these two upgrades might seem steep, but if the deal breathes new life into Ramirez, he could be the difference between Detroit sitting at home or throwing a parade this fall. For the Marlins, they would finally have a real third baseman of the future, an interesting young pitcher and a chance to move on from the Ramirez era.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story...-al-trades-mlb

I like the logic in forcing the Marlins to take Young because Jim Leyland won't play him, but if they were to switch Nolasco into deal for Anibal and maybe take on Raburn too for a little salary relief (contract expires this year, which is why they would take on Delmon to, to help offset salary), probably would have to take that on the spot to get the top young pitcher, a legitimate 3B prospect, and a shocking $30 million off 2013 payroll (and $15 mil off 2014 payroll). Pretty interesting.

For $30 million bucks in 2013m they could sign a big CF in free agency to a 4 year deal, a legit # 3 starter for 3 years like Marcum, stop gaps in 3B and LF awaiting for 2014 arrivals of Yelich and Castellanos, and maybe even a 5th starter and not hand the keys to Leblanc/Sanabia/Hand. That's also ignoring the possibility they supercharge someone like LAA with Anibal/Choate, and take back Bourjos and every good young reliever they have in their system.

[Miamarlin21]

I posted about a speculation trade with Detroit for just Omar in another trade, but this is very intriguing. Not sure if I like Young in the deal, but getting Turner and Castellanos is a good coop. (Even though we said that last time we did a blockbuster with them.)

[Mainge]

I walk more than Castellanos does.

[Anonymous]

He's struggling to generate walks in Double A, but he was at 9.1% walk rate in Single A, which is about average, I think. He needs time to adjust.

[Erick]

Plate discipline usually improves as the player gets older.

With that said, I think that deal sucks.

[tjfla]

Detroit does not want to deal Castellanos

One deal I been hearing is Infante and Nolasco/Sanchez to Detroit for 2 or 3 young players(Rob Brantly,Quintin Berry,Jacob Turner,Casey Crosby,Bruce Rondon) and before u start saying Quintin Berry sucks,people see him as a solid CF option for a year or 2 until Yelich is ready and would let Boner slide down and play 2B

Was said tho last night that Detroit might try for Darwin Barney and Ryan Dempster instead tho
--------------------
Also the LA Dodgers and San Francisco have discussed Hanley and Heath Bell however nothing came out of it. Alot of talk is the California teams(SF,LAN,LAA,Oak) have some interest in Heath Bell,however the offers have been a ham sandwich or a bag of balls. They seem to think we would be happy just losing his contract and coming back to Cali might do him good.
--------------------

I think Anibal will easily find a 3-4 year deal. After Greinke and Hamels, he is arguably top SP left (Marcum, McCarthy would be in "tier 2" as well). Those later three should all get 3-4 year deals making $9-12 a season. I wouldn't fear he accepts arbitration. He will find more guaranteed money elsewhere, and with his arm history he will take it.

Not to be a jerk, but two good prospects would be better than 1 draft pick. It's hard to speculate without know the "who" involved, but Anibal could end up being a 2nd round pick if a team drafting top 10 hypothetically signs him. A lot of unknowns, and of course he needs to stay healthy. If the decision is made to "sell," they should really take the best offer. They'd get at least 1 good dude and 1 good RP prospect which is probably adequate compared to 'forfeiting' the pick.

I still don't think they do it for business reasons. Don't want to give impression to fans they are blowing it up. They'd have to be really really confident in LeBlanc, Sanabia and Hand to immediately come in and over 5 innings.

That is the reason we are lookin to trade Ricky instead of him. Marlins want 2 or 3 Good prospects for him,with the thinking being if we don't get that we WILL offer him a qualifying contract(Think its 11 mil) and if he leaves we will get a pick from 31-35 for him. Teams tho are a little leery cause if they trade say a Jacob Turner and Bruce Rondon for him and he leaves Detroit gets Nothing for him and lose 2 young ML guys

[Miamarlin21]

Q is older but he finally started to figure it out. I got to watch him last year in Double-A and he has amazing defense. He's done well this year, but I really don't see him more than a 4th outfielder. That being said, I'd take him as a throw in.