Marlins Continue to Play Unwatchable Baseball, Fall 12-5 to Blue Jays

[Bobbob1313]

Anibal's gonna get four years, easily, on the free market, as long as he doesn't totally flame out here or get hurt.

[Swifty]

Yeah, he probably does, if we were in a better situation, I'd wish it were from us.

[Anonymous]

Why should we extend him? So we can continue playing the slap fight brand of baseball? A "damn good pitcher" is useless if the pieces around him aren't performing. A team with a lot of holes (which pretty much describes the Marlins) needs to take drastic steps towards improvement rather than maintaining the status quo. The Marlins have found that the JJ/Nolasco/Sanchez core is incapable of carrying the team on its own, which was the hope when they were assembled/extended. They need help, and it would seem, lots of it. There's not much in free agency that we'll be players on (unless the cocaine treasure at the OB has an extra $200 mil for Hamilton) and, as it is, I really doubt we have the budget necessary to keep Anibal and Zambrano around. Hence, I think we keep the cheaper of the two (Z) trade the better one (Anibal) and begin the rapid rebuilding process. If Anibal brings us a high level arm and a high level bat (which he absolutely should) 2013 looks pretty good.

You extend him because he's very good.

There is no guarantee the prospects you bring back in the Sanchez trade will pan out. I don't see the point of trading away a very good pitcher, which will open up another hole on the team, for prospects who may or may not pan out.

[Bobbob1313]

Because you are likely to lose him.

[Anonymous]

Because you are likely to lose him.

I already said you trade him if that happens.

I think what he's arguing is he would rather trade him than extend him.

[Mainge]

You extend him because he's very good.

There is no guarantee the prospects you bring back in the Sanchez trade will pan out. I don't see the point of trading away a very good pitcher, which will open up another hole on the team, for prospects who may or may not pan out.

Same reason San Diego trades away Gonzalez.

He's probably gone anyway. So do you want a sandwich pick or multiple prospects?

[Swifty]

I already said you trade him if that happens.

I think what he's arguing is he would rather trade him than extend him.

I'd rather we get significantly better than continuing to hover in 75-85 win purgatory. To do that, we have to take risks. This is the least "risky" risk. It's a player tailor made for a trade, in a definite seller's market.

[Anonymous]

Same reason San Diego trades away Gonzalez.

He's probably gone anyway. So do you want a sandwich pick or multiple prospects?

Yes. I trade him. I said that already. But what I think what Swift seems to be arguing is he would rather trade Sanchez even if we can extend him. I don't agree with that.

[Swifty]

I love Anibal, but I want no part of paying market rate for his age 29-32 seasons. If he wants to take less to stay, great, but there's no reason to believe that's even remotely possible. We missed the chance to keep him below market, now, we gave the team a chance to show it can play like a "special" team, they've failed and now you have to go about making alterations. We have two pending free agents: Anibal and Zambrano. We have several onerous contracts: Buck, Bell, Nolasco, arguably Hanley (though positional scarcity says no) and arguably Reyes (though we kind of knew that when we signed him). Zambrano's not going to bring back as much as Anibal (or demand as much to stay) and we're not moving any of the onerous ones, for one reason or another. So, tell me, how do we get better if all we do is extend Anibal and give it a go next year in 2013?

[Anonymous]

I love Anibal, but I want no part of paying market rate for his age 29-32 seasons. If he wants to take less to stay, great, but there's no reason to believe that's even remotely possible. We missed the chance to keep him below market, now, we gave the team a chance to show it can play like a "special" team, they've failed and now you have to go about making alterations. We have two pending free agents: Anibal and Zambrano. We have several onerous contracts: Buck, Bell, Nolasco, arguably Hanley (though positional scarcity says no) and arguably Reyes (though we kind of knew that when we signed him). Zambrano's not going to bring back as much as Anibal (or demand as much to stay) and we're not moving any of the onerous ones, for one reason or another. So, tell me, how do we get better if all we do is extend Anibal and give it a go next year in 2013?

I don't think a single trade involving Sanchez leaving the team will make us better, either. How do you suppose we improve if we trade away Sanchez?

I don't how to answer that question considering I don't know what will happen next season. The Marlins success will depend on an entire team playing well. What I do know is if you have a player of Sanchez's caliber I don't think you trade him IF you have the opportunity to keep him. Like I said, if the Marlins know they cannot extend him, we should trade him. But if they feel they can, they should.

[Bobbob1313]

Sanchez is awesome. He's one of the 25-30 or so best pitchers in baseball, probably (maybe).

But that's still just a 3-4 win player, most years, and he has yet to prove he can be an innings eating, so it is not inconceivable that he will be replaceable, in the aggregate.

The question becomes whether it is truly wise to try to rely on young players, when we already have seen guys like Gaby Sanchez and Logan Morrison kind of torpedo our season because of their youthful inconsistency.

[Anonymous]

Sanchez is awesome. He's one of the 25-30 or so best pitchers in baseball, probably (maybe).

But that's still just a 3-4 win player, most years, and he has yet to prove he can be an innings eating, so it is not inconceivable that he will be replaceable, in the aggregate.

The question becomes whether it is truly wise to try to rely on young players, when we already have seen guys like Gaby Sanchez and Logan Morrison kind of torpedo our season because of their youthful inconsistency.

He hasn't been a massive innings eater than the past two seasons, but he has nearly reached 200 in both seasons. And he's on pace to reach that this year.

I also feel that you don't let him leave when you can instead form a good trio of JJ, Sanchez and Buehrle.

[Swifty]

Look, either you're young or new to this baseball thing, or both, but usually at the deadline you get a lot for a player. Like 3:1 or 4:1 lot. Depending on how teams interested in Sanchez view him (and I have no reason to think that anyone would view him unfavorably, if you're in a position to trade for him, odds are also pretty good you're able to give him the 4/$48 minimum it'll take to keep him, so the rent-a-pitcher aspect isn't even a mitigating concern). If we can cherry pick a team's system of 2 upper level players (ideally an OF and a SP) plus a rawish low-level prospect (ideally another SP since those are so volatile anyway you just hope to catch lightning), we look good going forward. If we can get those 2 upper level guys to be ready and contributors in 2013 it's already a net gain because, guess what, we don't have anyone in house ready to step out of AA or AAA to do that. If we can then turn around and use the savings on Anibal to make a minor play in FA all the better. That's how you improve.

[Anonymous]

What if the two prospects suck and Anibal Sanchez is Anibal Sanchez for another team?

[Swifty]

And what if they don't?