Bleacher Report: Marlins Should Trade for David Wright

[Big Z]

– The Florida Marlins are off to a good start, but they are still having problems finding a solid thirdman. If the Giants are still shopping Mark DeRosa, Rosenthal suggests that he could be a perfect fit for the Marlins at third base.

-Rosenthal

[lou]

I didn't disagree with those other two things. Why would I question them?

If we got David Wright and another legit starting pitcher, I do not think anyone would care about getting Matt Stairs or Wilson Valdez or any of the other nominal bench upgrades you were talking about before the season.

I just think that was a super silly thing to toss in there. We get it, you hate our bench. If we added 7 wins worth of starting 3B and SP, it wouldnt make a difference.

I think it's super silly to worry about the teams starting 3B in 2014 if the opportunity presents itself to get a 4+ WAR third baseman for 3 years. Wanting to upgrade the team, even on the more nominal spots, is not.

You can't tell me you wouldn't feel a lot more comfortable with a veteran 4th OF, pretty much anything over Murphy, and a catcher the organization trusts more than once every other week. This is ignoring Helms leadership potential, and Dobbs won't be hitting .400 all year seriously skewing the early bench splits. Depth is important. LoMo out hurts a lot, and god forbid Stanton's quad or Coghlan crashing into a wall knocks another starter out. Proactively trying to upgrade legitimate spots on your roster is not super silly. These guys are going to get 1000 PA this year from days off and in-game management, ignoring massive injuries, and if the Marlins can find guys now to start creating depth, that would unquestionably "make a difference." Maybe it's not a 600 PA Wright difference, but this could easily be a game or two, and 92 wins is better than 90 or 91. What's the big deal?

[Bobbob1313]

Yes, being better is better.

And if we lose two of our starting outfielders, we're fucked no matter who we have on the bench. Most teams can't survive injuries to two different starters, especially not when they are supposed to be as import as our outfielders are to us.

But mentioning a "nominal bench upgrade" as something we could use to be a top 5 team is super silly. A veteran 4th outfielder instead of Scott Cousins is not making or breaking us as a top 5 team. Especially not when mentioned in the same breath as legitimate 5-7 win upgrades elsewhere.

Mentioning upgrades is not silly. Mentioning a maybe 1 win upgrade as something that could make you a top 5 team is silly. Because it really won't make a difference.

And your wording was not "Upgrade the entire bench all around." It was "a nominal bench player upgrade." You were just trying to remind us of how much you hate our bench. We get it. Seriously, we all understand that you do. It was super silly to put that in there.

[lou]

Yes, being better is better.

And if we lose two of our starting outfielders, we're fucked no matter who we have on the bench. Most teams can't survive injuries to two different starters, especially not when they are supposed to be as import as our outfielders are to us.

But mentioning a "nominal bench upgrade" as something we could use to be a top 5 team is super silly. A veteran 4th outfielder instead of Scott Cousins is not making or breaking us as a top 5 team. Especially not when mentioned in the same breath as legitimate 5-7 win upgrades elsewhere.

Mentioning upgrades is not silly. Mentioning a maybe 1 win upgrade as something that could make you a top 5 team is silly. Because it really won't make a difference.

And your wording was not "Upgrade the entire bench all around." It was "a nominal bench player upgrade." You were just trying to remind us of how much you hate our bench. We get it. Seriously, we all understand that you do. It was super silly to put that in there.

As to the bold, I clearly did not say that in the absolute terms you write. Secondly, it would make a difference because wins are wins and performance upgrades are what they are. Saying, absolutely, we're fucked if two outfielders at the same time get hurt is simplistic. Every team goes through injuries, but it's the teams that can handle them with depth are the ones who get through it. I think it goes without argument, we're really stretched thin positionally and we really have to hope LoMo is back strong in 3 weeks and no one else gets nicked up until at least then. You are thinking in absolutes way to much here. I'm not reminding you that I don't like the bench. I'm just commenting, this is a legitimate area where this team can improve and it's a bit more than you make it. And adding a win or two to the roster, could easily be the difference between making the playoffs or not, if things keep going so right for the team. I don't need to list examples of teams missing the playoffs, or having to play a tie breaker game, in recent memory, but you know this is not an uncommon occurrence.

And I apologize for apparently being confusing by not clearly stating I consider a nominal bench player upgrade as 2-3 guys. I will work better at defining everything in the future. I forget the scrutiny on this message board rivals senate budget discussions.

[Bobbob1313]

Were you talking in the context of the hypothesize david wright trade or in general?

[lou]

Were you talking in the context of the hypothesize david wright trade or in general?

I think we should not argue about something so stupid, wish we could return to the days where we did not and ganged up on assholes like 03, but

I think this team is about 85 wins, been pretty solid about this through preseason.

Assuming right now we added a Wright level player, probably 89-90.

Assuming Javy/Volstad throw sub 4.50 eras 180 innings/or whoever throws that (as not expecting that performance, expecting closer to 5), probably adding 1-2 wins. 90-92.

Upgrading Cousins, Hayes, and Helms with better options, and Dobbs plays more like 08 than 10, adding 1-2 wins. 91-94.

I think 1 win is a big upgrade. Teams will pay $2-3 million on a free agent on average for 1 more WAR. If we're able to do this over 3-4 players on the bench, for half that price or less, plus providing a trickle down effect on team depth, that could end up being a significant upgrade. I think Wright is an enormous upgrade. Yes, the bench is not Wright. Yes, it's not by itself turning the team from maybe into sure thing, but it's still adding a lot to the team and putting them in a better position. Especially hypothetically about who will end up as the better teams this year if we're following the insane hypothetical where the Marlins acquire Wright for Dominguez and Seddons^2. It would help. It's a bit more than a non-factor, even if it would only be a quarter of what Wright would do to the team. Wright is just a monster.

[nny]

1 win on free agent market is normally worth ~5m via fangraphs (5.5m this past offseason)

[Bobbob1313]

I think we should not argue about something so stupid,

I agree, I was just sayign that within the context of the idiotic "Marlins should trade for David Wright" conversation, mentioning improving the bench seems silly to me.

But I'm a nitpicky asshole

[HUGG]

I'd still hate Wright.

I'd pretend to like him and then call him an asshole when he left.

/what I do with most people in real life

[Bobbob1313]

1 win on free agent market is normally worth ~5m via fangraphs (5.5m this past offseason)

I have a problem with these numbers, and I've never been able to put my finger on it.

I guess it's that it tries to normalize value in a way that doesn't work. I feel like it overvalues marginal wins from mediocre players and undervalues good-to-elite players.

But I could be wrong.

[Mainge]

Seriously.

Our bench is fucking Lou's asshole.

Lol @ getting neg'd for this. Worst bench in the majors my dick.

[Beef]

By lou?

[Mainge]

No.

[Beef]

:-o

[Erick]

I said this before the season started on the other board, and I stick to it.

I don't see a problem with Scott Cousins as a 4th OF'er. At this point, he's no longer really a prospect. He's a 4th OF'er who maybe has the potential to be a starter one day in a non-ideal situation.

Either way, most 4th OF'ers aren't great; that's why they're on the bench.

Cousins is certainly capable of a near mid-700's .OPS with very good defense off the bench. I'm fine with him, and I'm actually thankful that Wise had a minor injury in Spring Training because Cousins is a superior player, in comparison.

Dobbs won't hit .400 all year, but he's just fine as a pinch-hitter off the bench. I hate Helms, but he's had years in which he's had some success against left-handed pitching, which he's now going to see more of this year because of Dobbs.

There's also the potential return of John Baker which could certainly help, in terms of offense from the bench.

I don't think our bench is a horrible situation right now.