Marlins Target Greinke?

[wanks1212]

ehe

[PitchingWinsGames]

Certainly makes some sense if that's the case

I can't say I blame him, if that's the case, but I certainly look down on him for it to some degree.

It really kind of says something about your competitive edge to outright "give up" on a division because of the Lee deal. I mean, if the big bad Phillies are really that scary, he probably should have stayed in the AL altogether

/bitter nonsensical statement

As for NTC's, the player earned the right to have them in his contract, he earned the right to do as he pleases with them

[CrimsonCane]

In baseball, there is only so much one individual player can bring to the table. I don't blame a guy who played totally inconsequential baseball in Kansas City his entire career to want to avoid repeating that possibility at all costs. Baseball players are usually not good at knowing their own sports, nor are they the brightest or most analytical people. He probably sees the Marlins recent history, the Phillies recent history (and huge offseason) and thinks Miami is going to be another Kansas City, albeit in a better city.

I mean your standard sports fan probably sees little difference from Kansas City and Florida, especially when we have a reputation for never spending money and fire sales. What about that screams out, "Playoff Contender!" to anyone?

[Valid]

In baseball, there is only so much one individual player can bring to the table. I don't blame a guy who played totally inconsequential baseball in Kansas City his entire career to want to avoid repeating that possibility at all costs. Baseball players are usually not good at knowing their own sports, nor are they the brightest or most analytical people. He probably sees the Marlins recent history, the Phillies recent history (and huge offseason) and thinks Miami is going to be another Kansas City, albeit in a better city.

I mean your standard sports fan probably sees little difference from Kansas City and Florida, especially when we have a reputation for never spending money and fire sales. What about that screams out, "Playoff Contender!" to anyone?

I disagree. I mean, unless the casual sports fan really doesn't pay attention at all, they would see that the Marlins are at least in contention nearly every year (and have won two titles since '97) while the Royals are consistent bottom-feeders.

[Fritz]

I disagree. I mean, unless the casual sports fan really doesn't pay attention at all, they would see that the Marlins are at least in contention nearly every year (and have won two titles since '97) while the Royals are consistent bottom-feeders.

No, we're seen as a team that sucks by and large but puts it together once every decade and then has a huge firesale. Nobody gives a crap about us having records over .500 for 3 of the last 4 seasons or whatever.

[Mainge]

No, we're seen as a team that sucks by and large but puts it together once every decade and then has a huge firesale. Nobody gives a crap about us having records over .500 for 3 of the last 4 seasons or whatever.

Pretty much.

[Ramp]

what Crimson and Fritz said

[Swifty]

In baseball, there is only so much one individual player can bring to the table. I don't blame a guy who played totally inconsequential baseball in Kansas City his entire career to want to avoid repeating that possibility at all costs. Baseball players are usually not good at knowing their own sports, nor are they the brightest or most analytical people. He probably sees the Marlins recent history, the Phillies recent history (and huge offseason) and thinks Miami is going to be another Kansas City, albeit in a better city.

I mean your standard sports fan probably sees little difference from Kansas City and Florida, especially when we have a reputation for never spending money and fire sales. What about that screams out, "Playoff Contender!" to anyone?

I don't completely disagree, but I think you're overlooking the amount of contact an owner/front-office will have with a player involved in trade talks, especially offseason trade talks, if a no-trade clause is involved or a deal is reached in principle. Organizations can/should/do act as their own advocates behind the scenes, even if they appear willfully oblivious publicly (as the Marlins do).

Or, to put it another way, if the hypothetical Greinke trade reached a critical stage, I assume Beinfest/Loria/Hill/Samson are all strongly selling Greinke on everything they do and have done. To piggyback on your suggestion that baseball players are generally not overly intelligent, it's therefore that much easier to convince them of something good with bright lights and pretty pictures. Miami is a very easy sell. It shouldn't take much more to sell an athlete on Miami and the Marlins than the $100 + million (bobbob's number, I trust him) we've spent on guaranteed contracts this offseason, Miami itself and our over-the-top championship ring as the kind of destination that appeals to just about every urge a pro-athlete can have: dollars, boobs and bling.

[Ramp]

This is Zack Greinke we're talking about. The last thing you want to do is sell him on Miami. Sell him on the Polo Club in Boca, sure... but not Miami.

[PitchingWinsGames]

No, we're seen as a team that sucks by and large but puts it together once every decade and then has a huge firesale. Nobody gives a crap about us having records over .500 for 3 of the last 4 seasons or whatever.

And Milwaukee is seen as....?

When was the last time they were relevant, they had CC and pitched him every 3 days for half a season, it seemed and then kind of just disappeared. They've been flirting with moving Prince for like 2+ seasons now, but otherwise, it's not at all like they have a better situation than we do, sans not having Philly in the same division. Milwaukee finished 77-85 last season, I mean... there's really no way you can say, with a straight face, they're in better position to compete than we are, especially with the Wild Card being as it is.

Which gets back to my main point, which carries off of Lou and Nny comparing Philly's staffs to others (Ours, SF and Oak) it's not such a crippling disparity and Zack Greinke is probably just pretty dumb, like most other athletes.

[Valid]

No, we're seen as a team that sucks by and large but puts it together once every decade and then has a huge firesale. Nobody gives a crap about us having records over .500 for 3 of the last 4 seasons or whatever.

So that puts on par with the Royals, where having a .500 season is like winning a WS?

[Ramp]

Most people don't think the Marlins are ever any good. What they think is exactly what Fritz said. 99% of baseball fans would not have said that the Marlins won 87 games and finished 2nd in the NL East in 2009.
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As for us vs the Brewers
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Most see us as a team that if anything went backwards this year. We lost a big homerun hitter and didn't replace him with anyone. We traded two former big time prospects as well. And that Josh Johnson will be traded at any time. You might not think the Phillies 4some is the greatest ever, but they still improved from last season (in the pitching department). Then there's the Braves who are pretty good (and added Uggla) while the Mets suck (but they do have some talented players on that team and it's not out of the realm of possibility for them to win in the mid 80s next year).

Those same people see the Brewers in a bad NL Central with an intriguing offense and now with two more solid arms to add in Shaun Marcum and Zack Greinke.

[lou]

I'm not going to lie, I think Greinke, Gallardo, Marcum, and Wolf is pretty god damn sexy with Braun, Prince, McGhee, Hart, and Weeks. Everyone else on the team may suck hard, but that is a pretty crazy core to build around.

I still forever will like St. Louis in that division until Pujols and La Russa go away, but the Brewers will not be fun to play, just as opposing teams have said for years, they do not have fun dealing with the Marlins young and fire throwing pitching staff.

[Namaste]

Most people don't think the Marlins are ever any good. What they think is exactly what Fritz said. 99% of baseball fans would not have said that the Marlins won 87 games and finished 2nd in the NL East in 2009.
--------------------
As for us vs the Brewers
-----
Most see us as a team that if anything went backwards this year. We lost a big homerun hitter and didn't replace him with anyone. We traded two former big time prospects as well. And that Josh Johnson will be traded at any time. You might not think the Phillies 4some is the greatest ever, but they still improved from last season (in the pitching department). Then there's the Braves who are pretty good (and added Uggla) while the Mets suck (but they do have some talented players on that team and it's not out of the realm of possibility for them to win in the mid 80s next year).

And this is precisely why Nevada always puts up a low Season Win Total # on the Marlins. Betting the over has been the easiest free $$$ wager for roughly the last 8-9 years.

[PitchingWinsGames]

Ignorance or "conventional" wisdom is not an excuse for me not to call them dumb, I know that the Phillies are going to win the next 15 WS because of Cliff Lee just like everyone else...

It's stuff like this that makes me think every pitcher should talk to Brian Bannister