Fredi Already On The Hot Seat?

[Jay]

If we had spent some money on a closer we would have made the postseason.

I have faith one of the closing options will be able to handle the task except whether they have a he's our guy mentality when someone is sucking, the season is doomed

[Party]

Making the play-offs is overrated.

If the FO was so pumped about making the postseason last year, why didn't they look at the bullpen and say "Jeez, I don't think Lindstrom and Nunez are closers on a division winning team."

Spending money on relievers for an 75-80 win is stupid, I get it. Spending money on a Lidge or Gregg type is stupid, I get it (who would have supported this?) But to make the post-season you need an elite team, and because the Marlins didn't have an in-house option they should have spent the money to put this team over the top.

Spending money on a good team >>> Hiding the purse and hoping for everything to happen magically 2003 style
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Now for this stupidity and failure to look at things for what they are, a manager is going to get fired unless this team has almost everything go right in 2010.
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And also, spending a few million dollars now is much better for the organization in the long term than having to deal some of our upper echelon prospects in July for a Boner replacement.

[Namaste]

So if we had spent money on Kevin Gregg or Brad Lidge we wouldve made the playoffs last season?

A much (much) better way to have improve and spent money would have been to upgrade over Bonifacio earlier than the deadline.

Spending money on relievers is overrated.

Spending money < spending money wisely.

Really bad names to use to illustrate your point. Are there more than 2 people on this whole site who would have advocated spending $$ on Gregg or Lidge for a playoff push?

[Bobbob1313]

Bonifacio was a much bigger weak link on that team than anyone in the bullpen. They fixed what was arguably the biggest hole on any contender in all of baseball.

They tried to make some moves midseason for relief pitching, and there wasn't anything worth doing. There weren't many good relievers available, and the only one I can think of (Bell) they would have had to give up West or Miller plus other stuff. That's not worth it.
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And also, spending a few million dollars now is much better for the organization in the long term than having to deal some of our upper echelon prospects in July for a Boner replacement.

Aaron Thompson is an upper echelon prospect?
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Really bad names to use to illustrate your point. Are there more than 2 people on this whole site who would have advocated spending $$ on Gregg or Lidge for a playoff push?

Ok.

Who did you want them to add for a couple of million dollars last year to shore up the bullpen?

[Party]

Aaron Thompson is an upper echelon prospect?

What rumored trade is this in reference too?

[Bobbob1313]

What rumored trade is this in reference too?

We gave up Aaron Thompson for our midseason Boner replacement.

Also: Leo Nunez and Matt Lindstrom were both better than Brad Lidge, and he was a "division winning closer".

It's overrated.

[Party]

The Phillies are a much better team in other respects to where a deficient closer isn't going to cost you a play-off spot.

The Marlins aren't the Phillies so small deficiencies are going to hurt more.

[Bobbob1313]

So would you rather they have added Heath Bell or Nick Johnson? Which was a bigger detriment to the team, Leo Nunez or Emilio Bonifacio?

The Marlins had a glaring deficiency at 3rd and a mediocrity at the back end of the bullpen.

If you want to talk about before the season, there was at least some reason to think Lindstrom would be capable in the role. There was almost nothing to suggest Bonifacio wouldn't be a spectacular failure.


I honestly can't tell what you are actually arguing. They should have added a closer before last season? Midseason? Now? You aren't being clear, really.

[Party]

In most discussions money means preseason spending.

And this isn't an either/or discussion. If you seriously expect to make the play-offs, for a team like the Marlins plugging up all the holes is the only way it's going to happen. I'm also not arguing over which trade should have been made. BOTH moves to plug those holes should have made been earlier.

[Bobbob1313]

Who would you like them to have added?

They could have spent money and kept Kevin Gregg, so it's not just spending money, obviously.

Matt Lindstrom was coming off 3.09 and 3.14 ERA seasons. Leo Nunez had a 2.98 ERA in 08. You could argue these were unsustainable, fine. So who would you like the Marlins to have spent a couple of million dollars on last year?

Also, at the time they moved Leo to closer, he seemed like a pretty good option, certainly not a team killing option (3.6 ERA, 9 K/9, only 5 HR in 40 IP).

Closer did not seem like a position of concern last year at the beginning. it also seemed like Leo could do a good job when he was put in the role.

This is absolutely an example of playing the result. Yes, they could have gotten better options, but there were reasonable in house options for the role.

[Beef]

Going into the season, I don't think there was too much worry about closer.

[FishFanInPA]

Nick Johnson would have been better then Bell. The lineup needed to get more runners on base.

[Party]

Nunez would have probably succeeded at the closer's role had the rotation been up to par. He pitched 20 more innings than he had in his last few seasons. But the entire bullpen and specifically certain guys in there were used too often.

[Bobbob1313]

So then it wasn't not spending money on a closer that kept them out of the playoffs.

What kept us out of the playoffs was Nolasco shitting for two months, Volstad's inability to keep the ball in the park, and Emilio Bonifacio. I'm not sure 2003 Eric Gagne gets us into the playoffs with all of the other shit that went wrong.

[Party]

Yeah it was because in the end the lack of depth in the bullpen cost them games. If you want to argue about which facet of the team cost them the most games, I will say it was the rotation hands down.

But since this is the Marlins and the FO couldn't go out and land a FA starter, the bullpen would be the next area where the organization could have made up for a deficiency (Miller and Sanchez were huge ??? going in) and built it into a strength.

Goes back to my argument about the FO being content with a team that needs 30 different situations to line-up perfectly in order to be a legitimate playoff contender.

That has been the case with the last two Marlins teams. Going into the season we all knew they would be respectable or even good, but it would take an alignment of the stars to happen to make the playoffs when deficiencies were taken into account.

Same is for the 2010 squad. That is a pretty shitty situation to put a manager in. Demand (not hope) that this time make the play-offs while handing Fredi a stellar 85 win team roster. That's my point.
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Going into last season, I did not think the rotation was a big enough strength to make up for a bullpen with a lot of question marks.