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This is Why People Think They Hate 'stats'

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  • This is Why People Think They Hate 'stats'

    To Create a Winner, You Have to Find the Winners
    By MIKE TULLY

    Anson Dorrance has coached the North Carolina women’s soccer team to 21 national titles since 1979, and he has been more than happy to reveal his secret to success. In his 1996 book, “Training Soccer Champions,” Dorrance described what he calls the jewel of his program: the competitive caldron. U.N.C. soccer players compete in every aspect of the sport, including the weight room, sprints and drills. Coaches then look for the players with a knack for being on the winning side.

    The consistent winner is not always the fastest runner or the hardest shot. It’s the person who can read the subtleties of the game and knows when certain actions can make a difference. It’s the person who involves and inspires teammates, creating emotion or a sense of mission. Coaches have a special name for such a player: starter.

    Major league baseball is not college soccer. And baseball players cannot compete in practice the way the Tar Heels do. So as the season begins this week, the time might be right to ask, How much value do baseball managers place on the team’s record when a given player is in the lineup?

    David Eckstein is one player whose contribution far exceeded his talent. A walk-on in college and a 19th-round draft pick, he still managed to make the postseason in 4 of his 10 major league seasons, played on two championship teams and was the most valuable player of the 2006 World Series.

    On the other end of the spectrum one might find Carlos Beltran, a four-time All-Star with the Mets. While he recovered from knee surgery last year, they won 48 of their first 88 games, and were only four games out of the National League East lead at the All-Star break. Then Beltran rejoined the team. The Mets went 31-43 (.419) the rest of the way and finished 18 games out of first place.

    Their decline cannot be attributed solely to Beltran, but the Mets did not improve with him in the lineup.

    On the other hand, the Mets went 42-36 (.538) with Ruben Tejada, the team’s highest winning percentage among position players with extended time on the field. Ike Davis had the best winning percentage at .503 (74-73); only David Wright was on the field for more Mets victories (75).

    Baseball insiders cite factors like cohesion, rhythm and percentages to defend the idea of sticking with tried-and-true players. They argue, with some justification, that baseball involves failure and that players need time to work through it.

    The Yankees’ Derek Jeter, who has won five championships, is coming off the worst offensive season of his 16-year career. Now the team is debating whether he or Brett Gardner should bat leadoff. No matter where Gardner bats, he should play; the Yankees were 93-57 (.620) with him in the lineup, and 2-10 without him. They seemed to get along just fine (21-4) without Alex Rodriguez. In the games Jeter played, the Yankees were 92-65.

    Should teams be slaves to such statistics? No, but they should notice. And they might be surprised.

    Last season Cincinnati won the National League Central at 91-71 (.562). But in games Joey Votto, the league M.V.P., played, the Reds went 83-67 (.553). Six regular teammates finished with a higher percentage than Votto’s: Scott Rolen, .586; Jay Bruce, .574; Brandon Phillips, Orlando Cabrera and Jonny Gomes, .561; and Drew Stubbs, 560.

    Similarly, Texas was 71-62 (.534) with Josh Hamilton, the American League M.V.P., in the lineup. He finished behind several fellow position players: Ian Kinsler (.592), Elvis Andrus (.568), David Murphy (.565) and Michael Young (.561).

    Carlos Pena, who had a miserable 2010 season for Tampa Bay, is a remarkable example. He batted .196 and had 158 strikeouts, but the Rays were 88-56 (.611) with him in the lineup, the best among their regular players. They were 22 games above .500 with Pena, two games under without him. The Chicago Cubs signed Pena for one year and $10 million.

    St. Louis traded shortstop Brendan Ryan to Seattle in the off-season after his career-worst .223 batting average. The Cardinals were 17 games over .500 with Ryan, seven games under without him. In his place is Ryan Theriot, whose Cubs went 43-53 with him in the lineup last year, 32-34 without him.

    Sometimes teams will find a player with an X-factor that goes way beyond talent. Leo Durocher once said that second baseman Eddie Stanky could not hit, field or run — all he could do was win. But Stanky was not helpless. He retired in 1953 with a .410 career on-base percentage, among the best in history.

    On-base percentage was not valued in the 1940s and ’50s, and that is the point. Certain players have always done things that keep them on the winning side, even if they are not always recognized.

    As for Jeter, perhaps the more pressing question is not whether he should be leading off, but whether he should still be playing shortstop. Where, after all, would he land in North Carolina’s competitive caldron?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/sp...core.html?_r=1

    Mike Tully, a former baseball writer, consults with coaches and athletes and has a blog, totalgameplan.com.
    Should've kept it that way, Mike...
    poop

  • #2
    ohmygosh

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    • #3
      Should teams be slaves to such statistics? No, but they should notice. And they might be surprised.

      Last season Cincinnati won the National League Central at 91-71 (.562). But in games Joey Votto, the league M.V.P., played, the Reds went 83-67 (.553).
      WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD THEY 'TAKE NOTICE' TO, MICHAEL???
      poop

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      • #4
        I think he just proved Joey Votto should not have been MVP. I'm going to run some Derrick Rose statistics. It will be tough, these are really deep and thought-invoking.

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        • #5
          God, that's so stupid...

          Joey Votto missed 6 games in a row and then, 1 game, 1 game, 1 game, 2 games, and 1 game over the course of 6 months and his team won one more game then their normal winning percentage would suggest, and this proves something, though the writer never says.
          poop

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          • #6
            Bulls have won 100% of their games this season in which Derrick Rose scored single digits
            --------------------
            Ehe, I just read the title.

            You have to find the winners
            Last edited by Beef; 03-26-2011, 11:25 PM. Reason: Doublepost Merged

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            • #7
              stab stab stab

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              • #8
                That is the most retarded thing I've ever seen. And I've seen a real-life retard with a learning disability. And he would write circles around the fuckwad that wrote that. Pure retardation.

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                • #9
                  Leave Todd out of this.

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                  • #10
                    I mean holy shit, I had never read anything dumber, or more worthless, and that was published in the NYT.

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                    • #11
                      I read this
                      Sometimes teams will find a player with an X-factor that goes way beyond talent. Leo Durocher once said that second baseman Eddie Stanky could not hit, field or run — all he could do was win
                      in the type of voice a 15 year old girl would tell a story. Or the way that band camp girl in that movie told stories.

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                      • #12
                        For a paper of its caliber, the New York Times has some of the worst sports writers out there. They are stodgy and old and devoid of intelligent analysis.

                        That piece isn't journalism. It's a glorified book report.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hugg View Post
                          Leave Todd out of this.
                          Does it hurt when your on fire?

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                          • #14
                            ITS JUST SO STUPID ITS BEYOND BELIEF

                            CARLOS BELTRAN IS A GREAT PLAYER BUT HE MAKES THE METS LOSE

                            OMG A RETARDED FUCKING MONKEY CAN WRITE FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES
                            --------------------
                            THE CARDINALS WILL NEVER WIN BECAUSE THEY TRADED .200 HITTING BRENDAN RYAN, WITH WHOM THEY WERE ELEVENTY-BILLION-AND-2 SO CLEARLY HE IS THE WINNING ELEMENT

                            I DONT LIKE TO USE ALL CAPS BUT THIS IS THE WORST
                            Last edited by Metes; 03-27-2011, 03:15 AM. Reason: Doublepost Merged

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                            • #15
                              This truly is the worst

                              I'm so angry at bobbob for causing me to learn that stupidity this bad exists
                              Originally posted by Madman81
                              Most of the people in the world being dumb is not a requirement for you to be among their ranks.
                              Need help? Questions? Concerns? Want to chat? PM me!

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