August 2019 Game Thread

[rmc523]

It’s not a good reputation for this front office either. Every great player they inherited asked to be traded.

They asked to be traded once they knew we were doing another rebuild, which they had already been a part of a few times under Loria. There's a difference there.

Not saying this FO gets a completely clean slate - they don't - and they have to prove to players that things will be different, but at some point they have to try. It's kind of a chicken/egg thing. Players can't realize things have changed here without signing, but players won't necessarily sign unless things change. Aside from early optics blunders, we've seen they are operating different, at least on the minor league/drafting, etc. side. Players are smart too - they can look at what we/teams have in the pipeline and see good (or bad) things to come.

We can just hope that some combination of money, upcoming team, Florida taxes, Miami location, etc. convinces the big guys to sign here. Conversely, we hope they don't wind up with a bunch of Chen, Buck, and Bell contracts just to say they spent money.

[Nick]

It’s not a good reputation for this front office either. Every great player they inherited asked to be traded.

Because they did what had to be done, and these players didn't want to stick around for that process. Players have seen what was done in places like Houston and Chicago, I think they realize this is just the way the league works now, you have to tear down and build back up. All you've gotta say is we're done tearing down, we expect to be good sooner rather than later, we want you to be a huge part of getting this club to championship caliber.

[lou]

Money

As Mel Brooks would say, a shitload of money, and leverage is how I'd phrase it, plus the team is going to be good in a year if the prospects hit. You can easily sell the kids/farm starting in 21 and big time in 22.

What if the Rendon deal is this:

2020 - $42 million, full no trade < - Massively front loaded in last Trump tax year, as things could (radically) change in 2021 for a top tax bracket
2021 - $36 million, full no trade < - Still front loaded a bit
2022 - $25 million, full no trade
2023 - $25 million, 20 team no trade (these figures add up to $32 a year, and helps Marlins with some payroll in 22/23 when that's more important for them)
-4 year Rendon opt out <- Who cares, give it to him
2024 - $32 million, 20 team no trade
2025 - $32 million, 20 team no trade
2026 - $25 million, 20 team no trade
2027 - $8 million buy out / $33 million club option, with vesting provisions
-Overall, immediate opt-out if Marlins win World Series at any time or Rendon wins a MVP

That is 7/$225 or 8/$250, and half your games with no state income tax on top of it.

This deal is better than anything he will get, besides on field talent, but does he take a chance to max out with some money or not.

[fish16]

if you actually look into the work this front office and ownership group is doing in overhauling all facets of this organization, they are nothing like loria's group. obviously they arent perfect, and the yelich deal looks awful right now, but the entire philosophy of the organization and the culture they are building is entirely different.

[lou]

Keeping Urena, Conley, and Rojas, and signing two $2.5 million players in 2020, plus a $42 million Rendon, is under $90 million

[fish16]

Keeping Urena, Conley, and Rojas, and signing two $2.5 million players in 2020, plus a $42 million Rendon, is under $90 million

is that 42 million a year for Rendon? Because id be hesitant to do that. that is an enormous amount of money for one player on a small market team. Only way id consider that much money is for a 2-3 year deal which it makes no sense for him to take.

[lou]

is that 42 million a year for Rendon? Because id be hesitant to do that. that is an enormous amount of money for one player on a small market team. Only way id consider that much money is for a 2-3 year deal which it makes no sense for him to take.

See above

[Nick]

if you actually look into the work this front office and ownership group is doing in overhauling all facets of this organization, they are nothing like loria's group. obviously they arent perfect, and the yelich deal looks awful right now, but the entire philosophy of the organization and the culture they are building is entirely different.

In my mind there were 3 main things the new regime had to answer. Can they build a strong foundation, specifically with the minor league system, how do they handle the PR side of things, and will they spend money? In my mind they've answered the first one. We've seen a distinct plan when it comes to drafting, IFA. Trades have been hit or miss, I think more hits than misses although obviously we'll still be hearing about the Yelich trade 20 years from now. Overall, I'm giving them a thumbs up on that one. Then there is the PR side. I think they've been good with things like upgrading the ballpark, things like throwback days have been a success, but they've been pretty terrible in dealing with the media. I'm giving them mixed results on that one. Then there's spending money. This is still to be answered. Spending on IFA is all fine and dandy, but really it's a thing every other team does, I'm not going to give them points because Loria was an idiot. They've gotta bring talent in through spending money, and they've gotta be able to keep talent when it's acquired through extensions. Signing Cole or Rendon would go a long way in checking this box, and send a message to the fans that things are going to be different.

[fish16]

In my mind there were 3 main things the new regime had to answer. Can they build a strong foundation, specifically with the minor league system, how do they handle the PR side of things, and will they spend money? In my mind they've answered the first one. We've seen a distinct plan when it comes to drafting, IFA. Trades have been hit or miss, I think more hits than misses although obviously we'll still be hearing about the Yelich trade 20 years from now. Overall, I'm giving them a thumbs up on that one. Then there is the PR side. I think they've been good with things like upgrading the ballpark, things like throwback days have been a success, but they've been pretty terrible in dealing with the media. I'm giving them mixed results on that one. Then there's spending money. This is still to be answered. Spending on IFA is all fine and dandy, but really it's a thing every other team does, I'm not going to give them points because Loria was an idiot. They've gotta bring talent in through spending money, and they've gotta be able to keep talent when it's acquired through extensions. Signing Cole or Rendon would go a long way in checking this box, and send a message to the fans that things are going to be different.

completely agree with this. I do think youre underestimating the impact of investing in IFA a little though. That can really have a huge effect over a few year span. Obviously you cant expect results right away with players that young, but it is a huge avenue of potential talent to tap into that we were completely avoiding before.

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See above

my bad, didnt see that. ID be fine with that front loading the deal in that case.

[Nick]

completely agree with this. I do think youre underestimating the impact of investing in IFA a little though. That can really have a huge effect over a few year span. Obviously you cant expect results right away with players that young, but it is a huge avenue of potential talent to tap into that we were completely avoiding before.

I'm not undervaluing it, I'm saying Loria not spending money on IFA was more dumb, than Jeter and Co. spending on IFA is smart. Spending on IFA especially for a small market team is a no-brainer to me.

[fish16]

i actually love the idea of front loading a huge deal for rendon or cole given where we are as a team, the amount of top tier free agents available next year, and when our young guys could potentially be receiving an extension. Gives a guy like rendon a little incentive to sign here while also fitting pretty perfectly into our time frame.

[Nick]

Frontloading, another thing Loria never would've done.

[fish16]

I'm not undervaluing it, I'm saying Loria not spending money on IFA was more dumb, than Jeter and Co. spending on IFA is smart. Spending on IFA especially for a small market team is a no-brainer to me.

more small market teams deal or ignore that money than you think, but i do agree that it is beyond stupid to just completely ignore 1/4 of the potential ways to acquire talent (IFA, Draft, trade, FA). I was saying for years on here that small market teams avoiding the IFA market to keep costs down is so short sighted its absurd given the potential ROI for the relatively small investment you can get, not to mention the trade chips you acquire down the road to add to a potential contender.

[Namaste]

Yelich trade update: Diaz has the full blown yips on defense

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Why in the world would Cole or Rendon want to sign here?

Money (as mentioned) and the 4th best farm system in baseball. The best farm system World Series starts in November (I’m using your joke. I liked that joke a lot).

[Namaste]

Teams must be so conflicted about playing us. We suck BUT we hit a LOT of dudes in the arms and lower back.

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Here comes the Acuna home run

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Omg he hit a pop fly to Andy.