May Game Thread

[fish16]

As did I. Kind of. Not Flaherty though.

Exactly, Weaver was the other guy who i thought they should have gotten. The point is im not basing my evaluation on having to always praise every move the team makes. Im making my evaluation based on the fact that no matter how much you want to irrationally shit on his stuff, he has electric stuff that with moderate improvements to either his K rate or BB rate, he's a mid rotation pitcher. And im not disagreeing that he might end up in the bullpen longterm, especially given the SP depth in the upper minor, my point is that calling him a #5 ceiling is absurd.

And you still havent addressed that you said he has been mediocre his minor league career when his first 3 full minor league seasons he had an XFIP in the 2's or low 3's all while being young relative to his competition, and then put up a sub 4 ERA and 1.26 WHIP last year as a 22 year old in a hitters league.

[Todd]

Because no matter how much you repeat the falsehood he doesn't have electric stuff. He throws a fastball really hard. It doesn't have much movement and doesn't cause swings and misses. The rest of his repertoire is not MLB quality.

You are like the one person who doesn't think Alcantra is destined for the bullpen.

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And by your definition of electric. Guerrero has electric stuff. His ceiling is still bullpen arm(and not a very good one).

[Namaste]

Wow Conley really has 5 losses before June?

[fish16]

Because no matter how much you repeat the falsehood he doesn't have electric stuff. He throws a fastball really hard. It doesn't have much movement and doesn't cause swings and misses. The rest of his repertoire is not MLB quality.

You are like the one person who doesn't think Alcantra is destined for the bullpen.

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And by your definition of electric. Guerrero has electric stuff. His ceiling is still bullpen arm(and not a very good one).

that's simply not true though no matter how many times you repeat it. He has inconsistent control, but his fastball is obviously electric and even last year mlb.com rated his slider and changeup as grading out at 55. Having control issues is different from not having good, mlb quality off speed pitches. There is no doubt he has control issues right now and if he never improves on that, you're right he is likely a bullpen arm or back end starter, but having good stuff and lacking control and command are 2 completely different things.

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Wow Conley really has 5 losses before June?

he's been horrendous. completely inexcusable not to have traded him and steckenrider last year.

[Todd]

For the record, I don't think you are being honest about one thing. Sandy Alcantara had 7 starts between his first start and his CGSO. And not a one of them was good. None was even decent. His two starts since that CGSO have both been poor.

[fish16]

For the record, I don't think you are being honest about one thing. Sandy Alcantara had 7 starts between his first start and his CGSO. And not a one of them was good. None was even decent. His two starts since that CGSO have both been poor.

good thing those 2 games where he completely dominated actually happened though, huh? he had the great first start, then he was bad in april, but in 5 may starts he's got a 3.23 ERA despite way too many walks. It's pretty hard to have a 3.23 ERA while struggling with control to the tune of a 19/16 K/bb ratio. If i take out any guy's best starts that account for nearly 20% of his starts in an already small sample size, chances are their numbers wont look good. If you took out 20% of jose fernandez's best starts, chances are he would look like merely an above average or good pitcher rather than the generational talent he was. Good news is, you dont just get to pick which starts you choose as indicative of a guys potential, especially in an already small sample size.

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Also, again yesterday he struggled with control, but ill take 6 scoreless innings as a "poor start" any day. It's almost as if he has great stuff and an elite ability to avoid hard contact that makes his potential pretty high with improved command.

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If you want to make an actual argument as to why his potential is limited, go ahead, but the whole "let me take out the 2 dominant outings" that account for nearly 20% of a guys total starts this year is a pretty fucking stupid way of doing so.

[lou]

I fail to see the upside some see in Alcantra. I mean he wasn't even particularly good in the minors and he more or less only has one pitch and its a flat(albeit high velocity) fastball. Hes not even "holding his own". He has been comically bad outside of 2 starts.

Sandy is 2nd in the league in exit velocity allowed, 5th lowest hard hit - https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statc...r_type=pitcher

That is actually an awesome profile. The strikeouts may not be there, but guys are not hitting him hard and can't square up.

A small downtick in walks and uptick in strikeouts creates a monster if that contact profile is real.

I can't agree he isn't holding his own either. He's been fine. He is certainly a work in progress, but you can see why they love him. He gets another 30-40 more starts for more until someone pushes him to the bullpen.

[fish16]

Sandy is 2nd in the league in exit velocity allowed, 5th lowest hard hit - https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statc...r_type=pitcher

That is actually an awesome profile. The strikeouts may not be there, but guys are not hitting him hard and can't square up.

A small downtick in walks and uptick in strikeouts creates a monster if that contact profile is real.

I can't agree he isn't holding his own either. He's been fine. He is certainly a work in progress, but you can see why they love him. He gets another 30-40 more starts for more until someone pushes him to the bullpen.

this is literally all i've been saying. No one is saying he's great right now, but to look at his peripherals and hard hit ball% and say he's got the ceiling of a #5 is just stupid, even despite the walks.

[geemoney]

Well, also the bullpen isn't very good. Guerrero's been either our best or 2nd best reliever this year and he didn't get the job done today. Conley miraculously got out of the 7th. Probably should've had Brice start the 8th, but even when he was in there he walked the one guy he faced on 4 pitches. Chen coming in was way dumb, but the writing was on the wall at that point.

Not to dip too far back into this thread, but this is kinda my take on Mattingly's bullpen management. He's in a tough spot because there really aren't any relievers you can count on for sure, so for me, it's hard to criticize his use of them.

[fish16]

Not to dip too far back into this thread, but this is kinda my take on Mattingly's bullpen management. He's in a tough spot because there really aren't any relievers you can count on for sure, so for me, it's hard to criticize his use of them.

I think this year that's fair, but in previous years he's been awful as well. And im pretty sure dodgers fans wanted him gone for the same reason.

[lou]

Still need quite a bit of pitching IMO

At the MLB level, sure. But I think the argument is, by 2021, this is MLB ready and chances are, this is a full staff of producing/developmental players worth the roster spot:

Sixto, Caleb, Pablo, Gallen, Neidert
Alcantara, Guzman, Holloway, E. Cabrera, Richards, Anderson, Rogers (bullpen conversion would speed him up), and Quijada

(I do think they need more lefties, but they can acquire some this deadline and RuleV, etc. That's my ideal return for Urena, Romo, Rojas, Castro, and Walker, even acknowledging they need hitters. I feel they could get better relievers than the fringe starting calibre bats they would get for those guys)

A lot of names that could be good aren't on that list too, like Yamamoto, E. Hernandez, Dugger, Stewart, and Garrett, and TJ is going to post 12 more relievers as soon as he sees this.

There is massive room for flameouts here and they could have 50-60% of these guys not work out and probably get the basis of a good staff of 10+ pitchers.

So yea, they need pitching, but it's coming. It's hard to not be encouraged. I'd put a pin in this until August 1, 2020. I'm not going to let current bullpen and xFIP woes get me down for awhile. It's an across the board organizational pitching fist pump so far this year for me.

[fish16]

At the MLB level, sure. But I think the argument is, by 2021, this is MLB ready and chances are, this is a full staff of producing/developmental players worth the roster spot:

Sixto, Caleb, Pablo, Gallen, Neidert
Alcantara, Guzman, Holloway, E. Cabrera, Richards, Anderson, Rogers (bullpen conversion would speed him up), and Quijada

(I do think they need more lefties, but they can acquire some this deadline and RuleV, etc. That's my ideal return for Urena, Romo, Rojas, Castro, and Walker, even acknowledging they need hitters. I feel they could get better relievers than the fringe starting calibre bats they would get for those guys)

A lot of names that could be good aren't on that list too, like Yamamoto, E. Hernandez, Dugger, Stewart, and Garrett, and TJ is going to post 12 more relievers as soon as he sees this.

There is massive room for flameouts here and they could have 50-60% of these guys not work out and probably get the basis of a good staff of 10+ pitchers.

So yea, they need pitching, but it's coming. It's hard to not be encouraged. I'd put a pin in this until August 1, 2020. I'm not going to let current bullpen and xFIP woes get me down for awhile. It's an across the board organizational pitching fist pump so far this year for me.

The bold is the biggest thing for me this year. https://www.mlb.com/marlins/prospect.../top-prospects . That link has the stats of our top 30 prospects. Go look at the numbers of our best SP prospects. Its unbelievably encouraging between great ERA's, WHIP's, low walks for a lot of them, and most importantly we have quite a large number of guys getting a K per inning and several other guys pretty close to that. The SP has been incredibly encouraging the first 2 months of the year.

[tjfla]

In 2020 Draft news. Guys are fighting to play for the Marlins

Blaze Jordan who was the TOP HS Bat for 2021 just reclassfied to 2020

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stor...0-draft-class/

Jordan is 16 6'2 220lbs 1B type with plus power

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At the MLB level, sure. But I think the argument is, by 2021, this is MLB ready and chances are, this is a full staff of producing/developmental players worth the roster spot:

Sixto, Caleb, Pablo, Gallen, Neidert
Alcantara, Guzman, Holloway, E. Cabrera, Richards, Anderson, Rogers (bullpen conversion would speed him up), and Quijada

(I do think they need more lefties, but they can acquire some this deadline and RuleV, etc. That's my ideal return for Urena, Romo, Rojas, Castro, and Walker, even acknowledging they need hitters. I feel they could get better relievers than the fringe starting calibre bats they would get for those guys)

A lot of names that could be good aren't on that list too, like Yamamoto, E. Hernandez, Dugger, Stewart, and Garrett, and TJ is going to post 12 more relievers as soon as he sees this.

There is massive room for flameouts here and they could have 50-60% of these guys not work out and probably get the basis of a good staff of 10+ pitchers.

So yea, they need pitching, but it's coming. It's hard to not be encouraged. I'd put a pin in this until August 1, 2020. I'm not going to let current bullpen and xFIP woes get me down for awhile. It's an across the board organizational pitching fist pump so far this year for me.

Should be adding 1 or 2 more top level arms by Tuesday as well

More than 12!!! They got guys in Low A who could be in AA right now

[tjfla]

Seattle beat us to the sell off


Jon Heyman
Verified account @JonHeyman
18m18 minutes ago

Mariners are deep in sell mode. “Trying to trade everyone,” as one rival put it. Beyond Bruce, also talking about Encarnacion, Healy, Gordon, Beckham, Leake, etc. Talks said to be “ongoing” with Phillies on Bruce.

Chen for Encarnacion!!! Come on Seattle let us screw u again