May Game Thread

[rmc523]

I think we all know they aren't signing Rendon or Correa. They aren't going to spend yet.

The reason I'm in favor of Abreu on a 2 year (let's say) deal is because it helps the guys around him in the lineup. I don't want him here when we're contending and I don't think he will be, but having his bat in the middle of the lineup makes it harder to pitch around, say, Castro or Anderson. They get better pitches to hit.

Longterm they have to eventually pony up for a big time FA and they're going to have to use stupid money to do it. And it's going to be ridiculed and it probably won't end up looking great when all is said and done but they're going to have to, they have no other choice.

The problem is, though, you have to start spending at some point, and you'll have to sign some guys when they're available, even if it's slightly off your timeline - sign them to enough of a deal that will overlap with your timeline.

I think they will - or at least should - for the right free agent. Their Jayson Werth signing (a year early but show you're serious). That's why I advocated a pursuit of Machado (perhaps not to the deal he signed, but go after him), especially in hindsight with the number of extensions there were - a guy that may've been a target like Boegarts is off the table.


There seems to really only be 3 "big" potential fielding targets for '19-20 - Didi, Rendon, maybe Ozuna. Pitcher targets could include a Cole, maybe Bumgarner, but a lot of teams will be in on all of them, especially the pitchers.
The 2020-21 offseason has more pitchers - Trevor Bauer, James Paxton, Robbie Ray - and fewer hitters - highlighted by Mookie Betts, JT Realmuto, and Stanton if he opts out.

[emkayseven]

Oh I don't disagree with you -- I think they badly need to overpay someone 1-2 years early and get them to come here. I just don't think they'll do it.

- - - - - - - - - -

The other thing is there's almost certainly a strike coming up in 2021. I think that was the hesitation on the big money contracts this offseason as well as the reason behind the below-market-value extensions players were signing. Everyone seems to see that we're headed that way. From a team's perspective, if you're confident there's going to be a strike, you don't want to tie up a ton of money in someone who isn't going to end up playing.

[rmc523]

Oh I don't disagree with you -- I think they badly need to overpay someone 1-2 years early and get them to come here. I just don't think they'll do it.

- - - - - - - - - -

The other thing is there's almost certainly a strike coming up in 2021. I think that was the hesitation on the big money contracts this offseason as well as the reason behind the below-market-value extensions players were signing. Everyone seems to see that we're headed that way. From a team's perspective, if you're confident there's going to be a strike, you don't want to tie up a ton of money in someone who isn't going to end up playing.

It'd be so Marlins to have a good foundation/building messed up by a strike.

[fish16]

Didi should not be anywhere close to a top option in free agency. If you’re going to spend in free agency spend in more impactful ways. I just don’t think he is nearly as good as people think he is and he is helped tremendously by the park and lineup he’s in. I’d take Elvis Andrus on a shorter term deal to kind of take over at ss for 2-3 years. That way you give devers more time to develop and don’t rush him

[lou]

The problem is, though, you have to start spending at some point, and you'll have to sign some guys when they're available, even if it's slightly off your timeline - sign them to enough of a deal that will overlap with your timeline.

I think they will - or at least should - for the right free agent. Their Jayson Werth signing (a year early but show you're serious). That's why I advocated a pursuit of Machado (perhaps not to the deal he signed, but go after him), especially in hindsight with the number of extensions there were - a guy that may've been a target like Boegarts is off the table.


There seems to really only be 3 "big" potential fielding targets for '19-20 - Didi, Rendon, maybe Ozuna. Pitcher targets could include a Cole, maybe Bumgarner, but a lot of teams will be in on all of them, especially the pitchers.
The 2020-21 offseason has more pitchers - Trevor Bauer, James Paxton, Robbie Ray - and fewer hitters - highlighted by Mookie Betts, JT Realmuto, and Stanton if he opts out.

Yep. They need to Jayson Werth it.

It was definitely Machado this year, or Xander or Rendon next. Rendon is last man standing.

Ozuna I think gets lazy when he gets paid. I know we are supposed to like him, but I don't LIKE LIKE him. Same with Puig. I'm not spending big money in the OF. I'm a hard pass on them.

It's Rendon. Whatever he wants for 7 years, opt out after 4. Front load it, back load it, no trade. Whatever. Show everyone you mean business with a big $150+ million deal a year early and grab Didi for 4 years (which I can't imagine is much more than $50-60 million so I don't think he's in a premium FA class) - who is an absolutely tremendous defensive SS with a super high floor and it's not Yankee stadium. Note his .259 BABIP last year and massive hard hit rate increase.

Plenty of pitchers and 1 year plug and play games from there.

- - - - - - - - - -

Didi should not be anywhere close to a top option in free agency. If you’re going to spend in free agency spend in more impactful ways. I just don’t think he is nearly as good as people think he is and he is helped tremendously by the park and lineup he’s in. I’d take Elvis Andrus on a shorter term deal to kind of take over at ss for 2-3 years. That way you give devers more time to develop and don’t rush him

Elvis - 1.8, 2.3, 4.1, and 1.2 WAR last 4 years. Texas is a launching pad even more than New York.

Didi - 3.1, 2.7, 4, 4.6.

It's not close. Didi is a better defender. Higher floor. Assuming health of course.

Elvis is having a fantastic BABIP fueled 2019, and I'd be fine with him on a 3-4 year deal too, but Didi is better and where did the Marlins front office come from?

Rendon and Didi/Andrus is a really exceptional offseason plan, and add a pitcher and 1 year plug/play bat in 21. That could be an interesting team if they can get signs of life from Anderson/Alfaro/VVM/Diaz/Monte/whoever.

Just pray all the pitching works so they can trade some. That's how they start hitting player acquisition home runs.

[rmc523]

Yep. They need to Jayson Werth it.

It was definitely Machado this year, or Xander or Rendon next. Rendon is last man standing.

Ozuna I think gets lazy when he gets paid. I know we are supposed to like him, but I don't LIKE LIKE him. Same with Puig. I'm not spending big money in the OF. I'm a hard pass on them.

It's Rendon. Whatever he wants for 7 years, opt out after 4. Front load it, back load it, no trade. Whatever. Show everyone you mean business with a big $150+ million deal a year early and grab Didi for 4 years (which I can't imagine is much more than $50-60 million so I don't think he's in a premium FA class) - who is an absolutely tremendous defensive SS with a super high floor and it's not Yankee stadium. Note his .259 BABIP last year and massive hard hit rate increase.

Plenty of pitchers and 1 year plug and play games from there.

- - - - - - - - - -



Elvis - 1.8, 2.3, 4.1, and 1.2 WAR last 4 years. Texas is a launching pad even more than New York.

Didi - 3.1, 2.7, 4, 4.6.

It's not close. Didi is a better defender. Higher floor. Assuming health of course.

Elvis is having a fantastic BABIP fueled 2019, and I'd be fine with him on a 3-4 year deal too, but Didi is better and where did the Marlins front office come from?

Rendon and Didi/Andrus is a really exceptional offseason plan, and add a pitcher and 1 year plug/play bat in 21. That could be an interesting team if they can get signs of life from Anderson/Alfaro/VVM/Diaz/Monte/whoever.

Just pray all the pitching works so they can trade some. That's how they start hitting player acquisition home runs.

And, sandwiching the guys we have with other better hitters will help pull up them too - they'll see better pitches to hit, etc.

[fish16]

My thing with Didi is just that i think he will get overpaid and i wouldnt be willing to pay what i think it will take. Andrus i think because of his age and the status of our SS position and what he is likely to command in free agency is the more efficient use of dollars if that makes sense. Then, you have him on a short term deal that allows you to either be very patient with Devers or you could just move him to 2b for the time being if he moves a lot faster than expected.

Id do Abreu 2 years-16-20 million, Ozuna 4 years- 60-70 million, and Andrus 2 maybe 3 years for around 12 a year. We're gonna have money to spend. Id obviously also love Rendon but I doubt he leaves washington or we pay what it would take for him to leave washington. I just think with where our money situation is for the next few years and the fact that a lot of the free agents that were expected to be available re-signed, we'd be prudent to make smart, short term, above average to really good additions and then re-evaluate when Lindor is up in 2 years where those guys are and where all the hitting prospects are.

C- Alfaro
1b- Abreu
2b- Diaz
SS- Andrus
3b- Anderson
LF- Ozuna
CF- Brinson
RF- Harrison

SP- Sixto, Lopez, Smith, Gallen, Richards/Alcantara/whoever

Not a world beater but watching that lineup compared to ours would be like watching 2 different sports. Those 3 additions at those prices would be around 37 million a year together, and we have 26 million in salary coming off between Castro and Prado and then Chen's 22 million is done after next year.

[rmc523]

My thing with Didi is just that i think he will get overpaid and i wouldnt be willing to pay what i think it will take. Andrus i think because of his age and the status of our SS position and what he is likely to command in free agency is the more efficient use of dollars if that makes sense. Then, you have him on a short term deal that allows you to either be very patient with Devers or you could just move him to 2b for the time being if he moves a lot faster than expected.

Id do Abreu 2 years-16-20 million, Ozuna 4 years- 60-70 million, and Andrus 2 maybe 3 years for around 12 a year. We're gonna have money to spend. Id obviously also love Rendon but I doubt he leaves washington or we pay what it would take for him to leave washington. I just think with where our money situation is for the next few years and the fact that a lot of the free agents that were expected to be available re-signed, we'd be prudent to make smart, short term, above average to really good additions and then re-evaluate when Lindor is up in 2 years where those guys are and where all the hitting prospects are.

C- Alfaro
1b- Abreu
2b- Diaz
SS- Andrus
3b- Anderson
LF- Ozuna
CF- Brinson
RF- Harrison

SP- Sixto, Lopez, Smith, Gallen, Richards/Alcantara/whoever

Not a world beater but watching that lineup compared to ours would be like watching 2 different sports. Those 3 additions at those prices would be around 37 million a year together, and we have 26 million in salary coming off between Castro and Prado and then Chen's 22 million is done after next year.

The problem is - and the thing that concerns me - with how many players that signed extensions this offseason, do we see that continue league-wide, and you sit there and count on players X,Y, and Z being free agents (for example like Boegarts) when we're ready to "go for it" (say with Lindor like you mention), and then they sign an extension, and you're left with nothing? Or do you get the guy now while you can for sure (well not for sure, but you at least have the opportunity to try to sign him being a FA)?

[fish16]

The problem is - and the thing that concerns me - with how many players that signed extensions this offseason, do we see that continue league-wide, and you sit there and count on players X,Y, and Z being free agents (for example like Boegarts) when we're ready to "go for it" (say with Lindor like you mention), and then they sign an extension, and you're left with nothing? Or do you get the guy now while you can for sure (well not for sure, but you at least have the opportunity to try to sign him being a FA)?

Fair point. But as far as lindor goes, everything i've heard and read about his situation is he's leaving there and they are going to just try to win in the window they have until he leaves. He would be a pretty incredible addition if we were able to make it, especially cause of the time frame that would happen if you think about it in relation to the development of our young pitchers which should be peaking or at least showing great signs by then.

[Namaste]

My sights would be set on Lindor if I’m Sherman/Jeter/Denbo.

Lindor, a legit ace (if Sixto doesn’t ceiling) or a legit #2 if he does ceiling and hit on a big bat in this year’s draft and it’s happy times again in Miami.

[geemoney]

It may be nostalgia, but it's nice hearing Tommy Hutton do a game again.

[emkayseven]

It may be nostalgia, but it's nice hearing Tommy Hutton do a game again.

Agree. They really need to find a way to bring him back for more games.

[fish16]

Agree. They really need to find a way to bring him back for more games.

the firing of him by loria and the firing of waltz by jeter were 2 of the rather tone deaf moves in recent memory. they need to bring them back. severino and hollandsworth are better this year and its easier to tell apart their voice after more time, but they still dont give you the entertainment and home team feeling of rich and tommy.

- - - - - - - - - -

also caleb smith is good as is sixto sanchez. also, our bats are poop.

[Erick]

Don Mattingly IBB’d a right handed hitter with Sergio Romo on the mound so he could face a bunch of left-handed hitters.

[dim]

Marlins can't go spending until they find out if any of their hitting prospects are worth a damn. Otherwise you could end up with a $150 million contract on a team contending for last place.

Only significant chance is that the prospects they traded for hit, there are some surprise emerging prospects, and under the radar signings. That is how the Cubs/Astros did it. They didn't go out and spend big money until their prospects came up and proved that they were building a real contender.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk