The 2017 Game Thread Thread

[Nick]

I'm curious to see the coverage he'll get if he approaches 61 in September.

[AdamRavs]

Just a little pitching this yr and we would really be in the thick of things.

[dim]

He's definitely in the MVP conversation if the team can finish the year above .500.

[Nick]

Jeff Passan can fuck off.

[fish16]

Jeff Passan with another piece trashing the marlins ownership and the need to trade Stanton. Shocking I know. Ownership deserves it but this core group of bats deserves one more chance next year, and then if they stink at the deadline deal Ozuna and Stanton. Ill say it again, Stanton's deal in combination with Yelich's in the outfield is not bad, especially when he is playing like he has when he has been healthy. This consistent complaining about the money owed to Stanton without referencing that it is over 10 years and that he will likely opt out in a few years and join a contender is incredibly annoying to me. It's a lot, but its not the reason this payroll is high. That is for stupid emotionally driven deals for guys like Prado and time and again buying high on guys like Dee Gordon, Chen, Volquez, Tazawa, Ziegler.

Between those guys alone next year that is 12.6 for Chen, 13.5 for Prado, 13 for Volquez, 10.8 for Dee, 9 for Ziegler, and 7 for Tazawa. Adds up to a ridiculous 65.9 million dollars for 2 guys who won't pitch, a .700 OPS 2b, a solid 3b whose production now seems like it can be outdone for the major league minimum next year just by calling up Brian Anderson, and 2 average at best relievers. The problem is not the stanton contract, the problem is emotional deals and overspending on guys that are given more than what they are worth simply because they were free agents. Stanton's next 3 years until the opt out are 77 million total, then an opt out starting the next year. He would get over that on the open market.

The next 3 years here are the combined salaries between Stanton and Yelich: 32 million, 36 million, 38.5 million. With Bour and Realmuto still on rookie deals, that is not a significant amount to the point where you should be hearing the amount of BS that we always hear about stanton's contract.

Unfortunately, knowing the marlins, they are gonna do the mindboggling move of combining bad contracts with good contract/great players like a stanton or Yelich and not only lessen the return, but lessen the current on field roster.

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haha literally hit send as your post about passan posted. Fuck that guy. His personal vendetta against the ownership is ridiculous at this point and its beyond beating a dead horse. Especially as they are in agreement to sell the team already.

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But more to my point, this lineup should be given another year together and make it a priority to do everything possible to cut some of those salaries without including talent and then take as many low risk high reward shots on SP's as possible. Because a lineup like this next year is incredibly talented and i'd structure it like this

Realmuto
Yelich
Stanton
Ozuna
Bour
Anderson
Prado (2b)
Dee (SS)

Then start with a rotation of Straily, Conley, Urena, hope someone like Peters, Nicolino, Richards, maybe Chen or even Jarlin Garcia etc can start up and be a capable #5, and then do everything possible to find a top of the rotation arm in some way. Obviously easier said than done but this lineup is too talented to blow it up. Also, please stop fucking signing free agent relievers. Idk how many times it has to blow up in their faces before they realize finding capable quality relievers is the easiest thing in the sport. We have many talented, good live arms still on major league minimum deals. Steckenrider, Wittgren, Barraclough, Garcia are all quality major league relievers and a great starting point to where you shouldnt be signing any free agent relievers to significant deals, let alone middle relievers like Ziegler or Tazawa. Just mind boggling decisions and have been from the start.

[rmc523]

I agree, fish. We clearly have the lineup to be a contender. It's the pitching that has torpedoed us. The bullpen has come back around after being shaky in the beginning of the season (specifically Tazawa and Ziegler). I hate to keep doing it, but imagine how we'd be with Jose still here. Regardless of that, though, it'd be nice to see them go for a top starter that we need. Imagine if we had done that the last few years instead of spending tons of money and prospects on mediocre guys that suck when they get here. For all the money we've wasted, we could've had a top line guy or two.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again - I think they need to take a Dodgers approach to rebuilding the team - spend on the major league roster while rebuilding the system underneath through the draft, international guys, etc. over the course of a few years. While it may not be the best path financially, I just think going through another fire-sale/rebuild is just asking what little fanbase there is left to disappear and never come back.

[fish16]

I agree, fish. We clearly have the lineup to be a contender. It's the pitching that has torpedoed us. The bullpen has come back around after being shaky in the beginning of the season (specifically Tazawa and Ziegler). I hate to keep doing it, but imagine how we'd be with Jose still here. Regardless of that, though, it'd be nice to see them go for a top starter that we need. Imagine if we had done that the last few years instead of spending tons of money and prospects on mediocre guys that suck when they get here. For all the money we've wasted, we could've had a top line guy or two.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again - I think they need to take a Dodgers approach to rebuilding the team - spend on the major league roster while rebuilding the system underneath through the draft, international guys, etc. over the course of a few years. While it may not be the best path financially, I just think going through another fire-sale/rebuild is just asking what little fanbase there is left to disappear and never come back.

I agree 150% with this whole post, but specifically with the second paragraph. This team is not barren of talent, and that talent is still young as hell. There needs to be a consistent churning of the other parts of the roster around the young lineup talent until you find guys, spcifically starters, that stick. Similar to the cubs getting Arrietta and other examples around the league of buying low. Not to mention Tazawa, Ziegler, and Volquez all expire after next year, which is like 25 million or so by itself coming free. The worst thing to do is to just combine contracts with talent and get the worst of both worlds. Unfortunately that is something i continue to hear discussed.

You know ive said it all year, but investing in the draft, player development, scouting, and IFA is the #1 thing this team needs to do, way before dumping any contracts.

[Namaste]

If we're going to keep the lineup core like you mentioned they'll need to acquire TWO top of the rotation starters. Then you have Straily, Urena and Conley as your #3, #4 and #5. You're fucking DREAMING if you think Conley is more than a #5. Conley's performance over his last several starts makes that clearly evident.

They're seriously 2 top of the rotation starters away from making a serious playoff run. But Darvish (insert top tier starter names) will be costly.

[fish16]

If we're going to keep the lineup core like you mentioned they'll need to acquire TWO top of the rotation starters. Then you have Straily, Urena and Conley as your #3, #4 and #5. You're fucking DREAMING if you think Conley is more than a #5. Conley's performance over his last several starts makes that clearly evident.

They're seriously 2 top of the rotation starters away from making a serious playoff run. But Darvish (insert top tier starter names) will be costly.

Those 3 as your number 2-4 is fine. Conley has been bad but he has shown himself to be the pitcher he was every other year of his career moreso than this year, and he still has a 3.62 ERA in 6 starts since he got back up here. I can take 3 start samples of any pitcher and say "they are nothing more than a #5." Can also do the same to most and say "wow, he has ace potential." I think the move is going to be if Bour has value to trade him for the best starter you can get and find a different 1b or promote from within. Not making Bour available leading up to the trade deadline is just unbelievable mismanagement.

But agreed, they need to sign 1 star SP like a guy like Darvish, but they likely wont do that. They do have a fairly decent amount of options coming to the forefront though after those 3. Peters, Richards, Nicolino are all possible and capable #5's. Plus while we all hate chen there is always the chance he gets healthy and, if he does, he is a good back end of the rotation piece. It is a pathetic thing to have this conversation cause our rotation is likely going to be bad, but it does have 3/5 fairly solid-decent pieces, which isnt a terrible start. The Jose death is just impossible to overcome.

[Nick]

Not sure you can say that Bour wasn't available. I mean if there were a similar bat that got a huge return during the deadline, maybe you could say well we could've gotten a similar deal for Bour, but those trades just didn't happen this year. Which leads me to believe the market for bats just wasn't there this year.

[fish16]

Not sure you can say that Bour wasn't available. I mean if there were a similar bat that got a huge return during the deadline, maybe you could say well we could've gotten a similar deal for Bour, but those trades just didn't happen this year. Which leads me to believe the market for bats just wasn't there this year.

Numerous sources reported that he wasnt availablle. Might have been ownership related. For the front offices sake it better be because that is inexcusable. But i remember it specifically because I remember I think it was either Keith Law or Joe Sheehen on twitter just talking about how ridiculous it is that he wasnt made available.

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keithlaw Retweeted Jon Heyman
Bour is a 29-yo first baseman who came into the year with under 2 career WAR. Hill making him untouchable is absurd.keithlaw added,
Jon HeymanVerified account @JonHeyman
icymi, marlins prez hill on the trade market & yelich, ozuna & stanton, plus thoughts on dee, prado & the pen. http://bit.ly/2uGzy39
2:51 PM - 10 Jul 2017

That is Heyman reporting that Bour was untouchable and Keith Law reacting to that report.

[Nick]

It's hard for me to take those statements of who is and who isn't untouchable seriously, especially as a Marlins fan, when I've seen those statements turn out to be bs seemingly most of the time. My point is, if he was available, where would he have gone? Who would've given us the package of prospects that would've made it worthwhile to deal him? J.D. Martinez is probably the most similar caliber bat that got traded, and the Tigers got a very lackluster return for him.

[fish16]

It's hard for me to take those statements of who is and who isn't untouchable seriously, especially as a Marlins fan, when I've seen those statements turn out to be bs seemingly most of the time. My point is, if he was available, where would he have gone? Who would've given us the package of prospects that would've made it worthwhile to deal him? J.D. Martinez is probably the most similar caliber bat that got traded, and the Tigers got a very lackluster return for him.

JD Martinez is not at all similar to him. Having Bour for 3 more years, with him a lefty 1b with pop is a significant difference. Martinez didnt get much because he is a free agent to be. Granted the hitter market was not very strong this year but Martinez is not in almost any way comparable to Bour.

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Yankees would have liked Bour but we told them he wasnt available.

[Nick]

If the Yankees wanted a first baseman they would've gotten a first baseman.

[rmc523]

JD Martinez is not at all similar to him. Having Bour for 3 more years, with him a lefty 1b with pop is a significant difference. Martinez didnt get much because he is a free agent to be. Granted the hitter market was not very strong this year but Martinez is not in almost any way comparable to Bour.

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Yankees would have liked Bour but we told them he wasnt available.

If the demand was there as badly as you think it is, teams would've been beating down our door to get him, and we heard nothing of the sort.