Astros @ Marlins Series Thread May 2017

[Namaste]

Game 1

WGW

[Nick]

FUCK THIS

[rmc523]

Houston @ Marlins 5/15-5/17

Tazawa sucks

[rmc523]

Oops I didn't see this thread here. Tazawa sucks

[AdamRavs]

Ziegler and Tazawa maybe father time caught up with them? I can't remember the last scoreless inning Ziegler had.

[geemoney]

Ziegler and Tazawa maybe father time caught up with them? I can't remember the last scoreless inning Ziegler had.

I guess at least Ziegler had a good start to the season. Tazawa has been awful from game one.

[Maddawg]

Shitshow is on again tonight....

[Namaste]

Classic Marlins loss; we out hit them 12-8 and lose by 5 runs


BLUEPRINT

[AdamRavs]

We could be the worst team in baseball when all is said and done. I feel like each night one way or another we find a way to lose.

[dim]

So Ziegler/Tazawa signings this offseason have been a huge negative on the season so far. One of the few instances where Loria wanting to spend for a big name in Kenley Jansen ended up being the correct instinct over under the radar signings of Ziegler/Tazawa (and yes I know Jansen turned down a large offer from Miami to stay in LA).

The whole issue with options is absolutely hurting the bullpen. Nobody will argue Tazawa has underperformed tremendously as has Ziegler, but neither can get sent down and the team definitely doesn't want to eat the money on their contracts so quickly. Meanwhile Brian Ellington is stuck in the minors after pitching great in the major league bullpen last year and succeeding in short time so far this year. Ellington and Wittgren are unfortunately easy targets to get sent down all year long because they have options, regardless of their better options or not.

- - - - - - - - - -

Classic Marlins loss; we out hit them 12-8 and lose by 5 runs


BLUEPRINT

It's part of building a team that has high contract rates but low end patience of plate discipline. Team did the same thing last year where they were top 5 in the majors in hits but bottom 10 in runs scored. It's not just power that's important. The ability to draw walks and get opposing pitchers into high pitch counts is a huge factor in building a winning lineup. It's very noticeable when you look at OBP of the lineups among the top team's in the league.

That said the Marlins actually have a number of guys with solid OBP's this year, and they're hitting for decent power. The pitching has just been poor enough to negate the offensive effort.

[emkayseven]

I don't even watch the games anymore. Don't care to. This is the most apathetic I've been since 2005.

[fish16]

So Ziegler/Tazawa signings this offseason have been a huge negative on the season so far. One of the few instances where Loria wanting to spend for a big name in Kenley Jansen ended up being the correct instinct over under the radar signings of Ziegler/Tazawa (and yes I know Jansen turned down a large offer from Miami to stay in LA).

The whole issue with options is absolutely hurting the bullpen. Nobody will argue Tazawa has underperformed tremendously as has Ziegler, but neither can get sent down and the team definitely doesn't want to eat the money on their contracts so quickly. Meanwhile Brian Ellington is stuck in the minors after pitching great in the major league bullpen last year and succeeding in short time so far this year. Ellington and Wittgren are unfortunately easy targets to get sent down all year long because they have options, regardless of their better options or not.

- - - - - - - - - -



It's part of building a team that has high contract rates but low end patience of plate discipline. Team did the same thing last year where they were top 5 in the majors in hits but bottom 10 in runs scored. It's not just power that's important. The ability to draw walks and get opposing pitchers into high pitch counts is a huge factor in building a winning lineup. It's very noticeable when you look at OBP of the lineups among the top team's in the league.

That said the Marlins actually have a number of guys with solid OBP's this year, and they're hitting for decent power. The pitching has just been poor enough to negate the offensive effort.

No, Loria wantign to spend money on closers who would require a first round pick would have been even worse. This team is hot garbage. A closer like Jansen or Chapman isnt fixing that. Loria wanting to spend a shit ton of money on a closer that would give up a first round pick would be just as bad as Ziegler and Tazawa, if not worse. This is why I was against that in the offseason. Unless the plan was to immediately sell whichever closer they picked up at the deadline, that route is incredibly stupid. And you know that wasnt the plan because Loria is not smart enough for that to be a thought out plan. This team needs 1 more all star level bat in the middle of the order and 2 very good SP's. Signing Chapman or Jansen would have been a nightmare.

This team would be smart to trade Ozuna and Ramos immediately, or at the very least by the deadline, and get the top starting pitching prospects available to them.

- - - - - - - - - -

This marlins lineup is not good. It looks good on paper, but it is not good. We are once again 27th in XBH. IT has been the problem for a few years now. Not even close to enough slugging ability, which should tell you how bad the rest of the lineup is slugging-wise considering we have Yelich, Ozuna, and Stanton.

[rmc523]

No, Loria wantign to spend money on closers who would require a first round pick would have been even worse. This team is hot garbage. A closer like Jansen or Chapman isnt fixing that. Loria wanting to spend a shit ton of money on a closer that would give up a first round pick would be just as bad as Ziegler and Tazawa, if not worse. This is why I was against that in the offseason. Unless the plan was to immediately sell whichever closer they picked up at the deadline, that route is incredibly stupid. And you know that wasnt the plan because Loria is not smart enough for that to be a thought out plan. This team needs 1 more all star level bat in the middle of the order and 2 very good SP's. Signing Chapman or Jansen would have been a nightmare.

This team would be smart to trade Ozuna and Ramos immediately, or at the very least by the deadline, and get the top starting pitching prospects available to them.

- - - - - - - - - -

This marlins lineup is not good. It looks good on paper, but it is not good. We are once again 27th in XBH. IT has been the problem for a few years now. Not even close to enough slugging ability, which should tell you how bad the rest of the lineup is slugging-wise considering we have Yelich, Ozuna, and Stanton.

Nobody is being traded before the All Star Game. Loria wants it to be his show.

[dim]

I'm pretty sure the Marlins pitching leading the league in walks allowed (and being 15 walks ahead of 2nd place) is the biggest thing to look at when it comes to the team's struggles. The lineup is league average which should be enough.

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And honestly in retrospect who cares about a top draft pick if your playoff window is so narrow? A top draft pick becoming Carlos Correa wouldn't happen for another 5-6 years after being drafted, which by that time would mean Stanton making $30 million a year, all the other salaries on the team skyrocketing, and a major league squad that looks very different from what it does now. Jansen in the pen would've allowed Ramos to take on some of those middle innings (not to mention Wittgren and Ellington being allowed to stay on the major league roster all season). I was on team Ziegler/Tazawa to start the year, but this team would be in a much more favorable position right now if they ended up getting Jansen in the offseason. This is a scenario where Loria's want for big name players would've actually paid off.

I've said before to you and everybody that the draft wins championships in today's game. And that is entirely true. But for every Yelich or Stanton pick there's a Josh Naylor, Colin Moran, Tyler Kolek, etc... Jansen would've brought sure results while who knows who that pick becomes in god knows when.

Also dunno what you want to do with the lineup. Give the team Rojas' production at SS all year and replace Dietrich's so-so effort with Prado and this offense is on the positive side of league average. Stanton also isn't putting up .900+ OPS numbers anymore which just can't happen. There's a lot of factors to have me understanding that this is an offense that isn't behind the losing this year.

[rmc523]

I'm pretty sure the Marlins pitching leading the league in walks allowed (and being 15 walks ahead of 2nd place) is the biggest thing to look at when it comes to the team's struggles. The lineup is league average which should be enough.

- - - - - - - - - -

And honestly in retrospect who cares about a top draft pick if your playoff window is so narrow? A top draft pick becoming Carlos Correa wouldn't happen for another 5-6 years after being drafted, which by that time would mean Stanton making $30 million a year, all the other salaries on the team skyrocketing, and a major league squad that looks very different from what it does now. Jansen in the pen would've allowed Ramos to take on some of those middle innings (not to mention Wittgren and Ellington being allowed to stay on the major league roster all season). I was on team Ziegler/Tazawa to start the year, but this team would be in a much more favorable position right now if they ended up getting Jansen in the offseason. This is a scenario where Loria's want for big name players would've actually paid off.

I've said before to you and everybody that the draft wins championships in today's game. And that is entirely true. But for every Yelich or Stanton pick there's a Josh Naylor, Colin Moran, Tyler Kolek, etc... Jansen would've brought sure results while who knows who that pick becomes in god knows when.

Also dunno what you want to do with the lineup. Give the team Rojas' production at SS all year and replace Dietrich's so-so effort with Prado and this offense is on the positive side of league average. Stanton also isn't putting up .900+ OPS numbers anymore which just can't happen. There's a lot of factors to have me understanding that this is an offense that isn't behind the losing this year.

I have to agree with all of what you said. I'm more concerned about the pitching than the offense. Not saying the offense is perfect - it definitely isn't, but the pitching is worse. And I also agree that had Jensen signed here, we'd have a far better record. How many games have we lost in the bullpen already?