Back Seat Manager

[Lee Stone]

Lol ... always an argument. Lee had the play in his pocket.

[fish16]

Lol ... always an argument. Lee had the play in his pocket.

your affinity for AAAA players is unbelievable.

[Lee Stone]

your affinity for AAAA players is unbelievable.

I praise my own children too - at every opportunity.

[gustavopim]

If Ziegler can't close out games/hold leads he's losing value right?

[fish16]

If Ziegler can't close out games/hold leads he's losing value right?

he has no value to begin with IMO. we needed to get lucky and him to have good luck but he's just not an effective reliever, his relieving style of relying on contact is horrible for a late inning reliever, and his contract is big.

[Lee Stone]

he has no value to begin with IMO. we needed to get lucky and him to have good luck but he's just not an effective reliever, his relieving style of relying on contact is horrible for a late inning reliever, and his contract is big.

It's not just your opinion - it's the rest of baseball. The $28M for two years of Tazawa and Ziegler was inexplicable/unforgivable. Same for the three year $42 commitment to Prado. There was no rational explanation at the time.

Here's a flashback to a deal the Marlins didn't make. The 2013 trade deadline offer came from the Pirates. Stanton, Cishek and Ruggiano for G Cole, J Taillon, and Starling Marte. I couldn't believe that the Marlins passed on that one. Even with Taillon's subsequent injuries and Marte's drug suspension, it would have been a landmark deal.

[Nick]

To be fair, when we signed him Ziegler was coming off a season where he recorded a 2.25 ERA in much more hitter friendly parks than Marlins Park. Guy has a 2.66 ERA in 11 years of service. Now I'm no expert on what's been different since he joined the fish, but maybe he's just hit that wall at 37-38 years old.

[Lee Stone]

To be fair, when we signed him Ziegler was coming off a season where he recorded a 2.25 ERA in much more hitter friendly parks than Marlins Park. Guy has a 2.66 ERA in 11 years of service. Now I'm no expert on what's been different since he joined the fish, but maybe he's just hit that wall at 37-38 years old.

We all hit the wall. Baseball seems to be the one sport where players are rewarded for what they used to be able to accomplish. Ziegler's peripheral numbers showed significant decline in 2016 despite a decent resurrection in Boston in the season's second half (where he was a novelty to AL hitters). Tazawa's numbers had already been unacceptable for two years before the Marlins paid him.

[fish16]

To be fair, when we signed him Ziegler was coming off a season where he recorded a 2.25 ERA in much more hitter friendly parks than Marlins Park. Guy has a 2.66 ERA in 11 years of service. Now I'm no expert on what's been different since he joined the fish, but maybe he's just hit that wall at 37-38 years old.

its not the ERA, its the WHIP and the style of pitching that goes against just about everything the game has become, and the fact that quality relievers should be the easiest thing to find and even when you do sign a reliever, it should rarely be for over 1 year.

His career xFIP is 3.60 and he was coming here at age 37. I would have had no problem with him coming here for a 1 year deal or even a 2 year deal for less money, but it was a stupid move to do for 2 years, at the money, and with the way the style of pitching/hitting has continue to evolve for 10+ years.

[Namaste]

To be fair, when we signed him Ziegler was coming off a season where he recorded a 2.25 ERA in much more hitter friendly parks than Marlins Park. Guy has a 2.66 ERA in 11 years of service. Now I'm no expert on what's been different since he joined the fish, but maybe he's just hit that wall at 37-38 years old.

This is also known as the Miami Effect.

Chen and Tazawa also suffer from this crippling disease.

[Lee Stone]

Listened to the Frisaro podcast while cleaning my kitchen. Damnest thing. I disagreed with nearly every word out of Frisaro's mouth. Time to regard Brinson, Harrison, I Diaz, Alcantara, Sierra based on what they do, not what is fantasized. There seems to be a massive discount of the pre-existing farmhands. Ben Meyer and Jeff Brigham start tonight for New Orleans and Jacksonville. They are among the guys holding out hope in the short term ... to me. Those games are shown on MiLBTV, available for $50 bucks for the entire season - the same cost as half a dozen beers at Marlins Park. *There has finally been an Austin Dean sighting - he's hitting .520 for Jacksonville and represents an option to carrying Brinson on the Big League roster. **Caution: Meyer, Brigham, and Dean don't exist according to MLBPipeline's top 30 Marlin prospects.

[fish16]

Listened to the Frisaro podcast while cleaning my kitchen. Damnest thing. I disagreed with nearly every word out of Frisaro's mouth. Time to regard Brinson, Harrison, I Diaz, Alcantara, Sierra based on what they do, not what is fantasized. There seems to be a massive discount of the pre-existing farmhands. Ben Meyer and Jeff Brigham start tonight for New Orleans and Jacksonville. They are among the guys holding out hope in the short term ... to me. Those games are shown on MiLBTV, available for $50 bucks for the entire season - the same cost as half a dozen beers at Marlins Park. *There has finally been an Austin Dean sighting - he's hitting .520 for Jacksonville and represents an option to carrying Brinson on the Big League roster. **Caution: Meyer, Brigham, and Dean don't exist according to MLBPipeline's top 30 Marlin prospects.

probably because unlike you they actually know how to evaluate prospects. also, no one isnt basing those guys based on what they do, they are basing their opinion moreso off their potential considering the minor league season is a week old and basing opinions based off stats is beyond stupid. Not to mention all of those guys are starting full time at new levels for the first time and arent expected to light the world on fire right away.

[Lee Stone]

If it were my team, I'd have Jeff Brigham on the move to Miami. At age 26, there's no point in waiting. If you watched his Jacksonville outings, you witnessed wipeout stuff that no current Marlin offers. Movement with every pitch - helpless hitters. Trevor Richards - who I believe has rotation potential at some point - needs more time in the minors.

[fish16]

If it were my team, I'd have Jeff Brigham on the move to Miami. At age 26, there's no point in waiting. If you watched his Jacksonville outings, you witnessed wipeout stuff that no current Marlin offers. Movement with every pitch - helpless hitters. Trevor Richards - who I believe has rotation potential at some point - needs more time in the minors.

youre helpless.

[Erick]

If it were my team, I'd have Jeff Brigham on the move to Miami. At age 26, there's no point in waiting. If you watched his Jacksonville outings, you witnessed wipeout stuff that no current Marlin offers. Movement with every pitch - helpless hitters. Trevor Richards - who I believe has rotation potential at some point - needs more time in the minors.