Marlins Trade Giancarlo Stanton to Yankees

[fish16]

Cubs and Astros also drafted and traded for top prospects (not to mention international signings). During their rebuilds those teams acquired the top farm systems in baseball a few years prior to their world series wins. Those teams didn't have a reigning NL MVP to use as ammunition.

We left this without a top 100 prospect. I don't care how you rationalize it that is pathetic.

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We havent had an opportunity to draft anyone yet, not sure how you can complain about that. And we havent traded anyone who is good enough combined with a reasonable contract enough to get a top 100 prospect. But we did have 2 deals where we would have gotten multiple top 100 guys for stanton and he rejected them because he has a NTC.

We will get top 100 guys for Ozuna, Straily, Realmuto, maybe Yelich if they move him, and maybe Bour. Getting top prospects has tons to do with contracts as well as talent.

And just like the cubs and astros acquired the top farm systems in baseball, we are currently trying to do that. Our rebuild started literally 3 days ago when we traded dee. Not sure you can complain that we dont have a top farm system yet. The cubs and astros also had a pretty shitty farm system when they began their rebuilds.

[fauowls44]

Nick Neidert was #84 on Baseball America’s mid season top 100 list.

I get it though...they had better end up with multiple impact prospects for Ozuna and/or Yelich.

[fish16]

Nobody has a problem with a rebuild. The teams window was 2015-2017 and they failed it was time to restart given how bad the free agent signings and drafting have been.

The problem is trades to relieve salary not to rebuild the farm. You rebuild by turning top expensive players into young, cheap, high potential players. I don't know how u look at these rookie ball guys barely in the teams top 10 prospect list and starlin Castro who is worth about as much if not less than Dee was for us and say we got value enough.

You rebuild with value. This is just dumping money. It's a 2006 move when payroll went to $22 million or so. A professional baseball team in 2018 shouldn't be operating on a $60 million payroll.

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You also cant get those young, cheap, high potential players when the only guys youve given up so far dont have much value outside of salary relief due to stupid contracts given out by loria.

And you rebuild with value AND by dumping money. This team will do both this offseason. Give it literally like 3 days and you'll see with the Ozuna haul.

[Nick]

Fish16 is really getting me pumped about trading our 5-tool 27-year old 2-time all-star.

[dim]

Fish16 is really getting me pumped about trading our 5-tool 27-year old 2-time all-star.

Reigning NL MVP don't forget the lead.

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[fish16]

Fish16 is really getting me pumped about trading our 5-tool 27-year old 2-time all-star.

lol, im not pumped about trading him. Stanton is likely the best player this franchise has ever had. Im just excited we finally have a front office group doing the hard thing and deciding to do a full on rebuild and do it the right way. im so fucking sick of a middling franchise with no shot of ever contending but then foolishly convincing themselves that they do have a shot and then trading pieces of the future to inevitably fall short. I'm a guy who loves the team building aspect of baseball and building a well constructed team that is sustainable, and the marlins have been the complete opposite for so long now. It sucks to see stanton have to be traded, but it doesnt make it any less of the right move to make.

[dim]

Imagine if Loria actually paid Stanton like a non asshole and Stanton was making $25 million a year for the remainder of his deal

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[Nick]

I was actually talking about Ozuna. Lol

[rmc523]

I think dim's point is (and something I agree with) is that we've accepted that the team unfortunately needs to be torn down. And we'd be ok with a trade of players, but when the moves so far have been:

1) move Dee, Seattle pays his salary and gets international money from us (meaning more money we won't spend), and
2) trade the reigning MVP for 2 guys and salary offset and we throw in 30M (offset by whatever Castro is making)

Those look like typical Loria-esque moves.....get rid of the money on the books, who cares what we get.

Compare that to the Cubs/Astros, who when they traded away higher-paid guys, would include/eat more money in the trade in order to get better prospects back. If we took that approach, I think dim would be more ok with it (that's my view anyway), as you're getting more significant value back aside from getting the money off the books. It's the "same old same old", Marlins business as usual look to the moves so far that are rubbing us the wrong way.

[dim]

I was actually talking about Ozuna. Lol

Yeah...me too >_>

Well now I'm sad again

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[dim]

I think dim's point is (and something I agree with) is that we've accepted that the team unfortunately needs to be torn down. And we'd be ok with a trade of players, but when the moves so far have been:

1) move Dee, Seattle pays his salary and gets international money from us (meaning more money we won't spend), and
2) trade the reigning MVP for 2 guys and salary offset and we throw in 30M (offset by whatever Castro is making)

Those look like typical Loria-esque moves.....get rid of the money on the books, who cares what we get.

Compare that to the Cubs/Astros, who when they traded away higher-paid guys, would include/eat more money in the trade in order to get better prospects back. If we took that approach, I think dim would be more ok with it (that's my view anyway), as you're getting more significant value back aside from getting the money off the books. It's the "same old same old", Marlins business as usual look to the moves so far that are rubbing us the wrong way.

This is it. It's short term money purging once again at the sacrifice of long term team building.

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[fish16]

I think dim's point is (and something I agree with) is that we've accepted that the team unfortunately needs to be torn down. And we'd be ok with a trade of players, but when the moves so far have been:

1) move Dee, Seattle pays his salary and gets international money from us (meaning more money we won't spend), and
2) trade the reigning MVP for 2 guys and salary offset and we throw in 30M (offset by whatever Castro is making)

Those look like typical Loria-esque moves.....get rid of the money on the books, who cares what we get.

Compare that to the Cubs/Astros, who when they traded away higher-paid guys, would include/eat more money in the trade in order to get better prospects back. If we took that approach, I think dim would be more ok with it (that's my view anyway), as you're getting more significant value back aside from getting the money off the books. It's the "same old same old", Marlins business as usual look to the moves so far that are rubbing us the wrong way.

the cubs and astros didnt have higher paid guys that they traded away, and the ones they did, such as Hammel or Samardjia were guys that were upcoming free agents. Maybe im missing a guy or 2, but i dont remember one guy that the cubs or astros traded that had long term deals that they ended up getting impact prospects for.

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This is it. It's short term money purging once again at the sacrifice of long term team building.

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its not short term money purging though. We've cut nearly 300 million or so due over the next 10 years in the last 3 days. Stanton and Dee were both 10 years and 3 years of significant money, respectively.

[Erick]

I am not ok with the fact we have to trade these players.

However, since we have to, I think the value we got back in these deals is about what I expected.

[fish16]

In fact, looking after the cubs transactions from the start of their rebuild on, they traded almost no one with long term deals like Dee and Stanton. They did a shit ton of roster churning and minor deals and had awesome scouting that netted them Arrieta and Hendricks for almost nothing, but besides that and the trade for Addison russell where they gave up 2 soon to be free agent pitchers in Hammel and Samardjia, they did their work almost exclusively through the draft.

We better be doing major investing in IFa and the draft, and if we dont do so then we can start having valid criticisms.

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Same with the Astros. Almost everyone in their core was drafted by them. If anything we have a head start on them as far as assets to procure talent via trade. We really need to draft well and spend in IFA though for any of this to be worth it.

[flamarlins93]

lol, im not pumped about trading him. Stanton is likely the best player this franchise has ever had. Im just excited we finally have a front office group doing the hard thing and deciding to do a full on rebuild and do it the right way. im so fucking sick of a middling franchise with no shot of ever contending but then foolishly convincing themselves that they do have a shot and then trading pieces of the future to inevitably fall short. I'm a guy who loves the team building aspect of baseball and building a well constructed team that is sustainable, and the marlins have been the complete opposite for so long now. It sucks to see stanton have to be traded, but it doesnt make it any less of the right move to make.

How do you know that this front office is going to do it the right way? To this point I have seen no indications that they will either. Stanton did need to be traded but like Jim Callis said on twitter the team shouldn't have gone out and advertised that he had to go. That killed any power the Marlins had every team knew they were going to do whatever they had to in order to rid the team of his salary. I am not looking forward to this team being so bad that its not worth even seeing if they won or lost. Most likely this team is going to be really bad for a minimum of 3-4 years and that is if they hit on prospects in trades. Why didn't they try to get some international spending money from the Yankees in the deal? With them missing out on Shohei they had an abundance. They just dumped 35 million in salary why not try and get a little something extra to improve the team and do something to show the fans that things will be different. So far Jeter has not given the fans any reason to be optimistic or that there is anything to look forward to.