Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[MiamiHomer]

Mish didn't tweet it, he had a pariscope video of him discussing that. That is what Manso was talking about.

[fauowls44]

Yep. Trading Ozuna, Castro, Straily, and Bour, and eating half of Prado, Ziegler, and Tazawa will be a low $50s number in 2018 payroll. (It's also not like Dietrich and his est. $4 million isn't disposable either.) $60 is their stated number, so any reduced packages for the first 4 by attaching the later 3 is 100% a dump and not a baseball move.

I feel (a little) for the new ownership group as they inherited a mess, but at the same time, they do have a responsibility to look forward while fixing the issues and you can't just focus solely on the "debt" and ignore building the team. They have to do both. Dumping these guys to save negligible money would set them back another 1-2 years, and they are already 2-4 years out from contending as is.

Buying out Realmuto for 5+ and maxing out Ozuna, Castro, Straily, and Bour are strong baseball moves to respectability. That should add pretty significantly to Rogers, Garret, Guzman, Neidert, M. Gonzalez, Peters, and I guess Kolek, and I think everyone would be OK with that all things considered.

And it's not like Prado, Ziegler, and Tazawa are long term problems. Even if they do nothing and keep them (which they won't), they'll be off the books relatively soon. I also don't think attaching Ziegler in a trade is necessarily a bad thing since he has some value and Ozuna/Yelich are cheap anyway. The issue would be trying to attach Chen (but I seriously doubt anyone is taking him). I would just sit on Prado/Tazawa/Chen into the season and hope for them to bounce back and build value before the trade deadline.

[tjfla]

Do you consider Albert Guaimaro one of the top 30 prospects? His and Devers GCL stats this year are virtually the same and they are the same age.

U know Guaimaro was #26-28 on our list before these trades right? He is probably #31 right now on MLB.com so ya Devers should be a Top 30 prospect. Same age but Devers is a defensive SS

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Ok so I really hope they trade Justin Bour now beOn Mike Ford

Here’s Denbo talking about him a few months ago....


.

http://www.trentonian.com/sports/201...ther-prospects

http://m.milb.com/milb/player/645801

No clue who it is but was mentioned we are likely taking a NYY guy in the Rule 5(if there at #13) and might just trade for his rights as part of the Stanton deal. I heard it was a P tho

[lou]

And it's not like Prado, Ziegler, and Tazawa are long term problems. Even if they do nothing and keep them (which they won't), they'll be off the books relatively soon. I also don't think attaching Ziegler in a trade is necessarily a bad thing since he has some value and Ozuna/Yelich are cheap anyway. The issue would be trying to attach Chen (but I seriously doubt anyone is taking him). I would just sit on Prado/Tazawa/Chen into the season and hope for them to bounce back and build value before the trade deadline.

It all depends if you can fit them into this seasons $60 budget (which for discussions sake I am considering a hard line in the sand). They could keep them and trade them in June if someone picks up 100% of their remaining salary on the year.

And yea, Zieglar at $4.5 and Tazawa at $3.5 (50% salary) for 1 year are easily tradeable. Maybe you don't even need to eat that much for Ziegler. Someone is rolling the dice on them for that price and likely a single A arm outside a teams top 20 prospects. I definitely move both of them now and go into the season with Steckenrider, Wittgren, Garcia, Ellington/O'Grady/Despaigne/camp competition as the bullpen (I trade Barraclough attached to Castro, Straily, or Bour to completely max out a trade with them for best young SP prospect you can get).

Prado is a little more problematic, but someone will take him. He's only 34 and he was excellent 15-16. Just eat half the money and someone will think its worth it for low level prospects. You're not getting a good deal for him even if he plays well for 2 months, so just pull the plug.

Chen is a lost cause. He's unmoveable and cross your fingers he shows something next year after a full year of rehab and move him in a deadline deal for anything.

[tjfla]

If they dump either of those guys for less than full value just to get rid of a bad contract, I may actually be done with this team. You will easily be able to get to your number without doing that. Everything from here on out has to be about building your farm system. Sacrificing that would be dooming this team moving forward, and the league should absolutely not allow that bullshit.

Guess u will be looking for a new team because that is exactly what they are trying to do. Like Frisaro said 6-8 teams have talked on Ozuna(SF,St Louis,Wash,Texas,Oakland,LAD,Houston,Toronto) and have told some of them they need to take either Tazawa,Ziegler or Prado in the deal. Yelich is NOT being shopped but they have taken calls/offers from St Louis,LAD,Oakland,SD,Philly and more,told team they need at least 3 TOP 100 prospects however instead of another 1 or 2 prospects they would rather have u take a contract.

They aren't giving these guys away they still want tons. The thing that is killing them right now is no FA bats have signed

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Atlanta has talked to Miami about Prado but we need to pay most of his salary

Milwaukee,Minnesota,Baltimore are in on Straily BUT all are waiting to see if they get a FA SP first

Starlin Castro is being looked at by SD(SS),LAA,Milwaukee,NYM

Justin Bour looks like he is staying for now but don't be suprised if he is moved at the deadline. They have also taken calls on Bearclaw and Conley but might hold onto them for now and try to up value

Soon as some of these FA start signing business will be picking up for us.

If SD gets Hosmer dont be surprised if Yelich to SD picks up alot of steam(Not saying he goes there but SD is gonna go hard after him if they feel guys are coming)

[fauowls44]

I don’t think attaching Ziegler or Tazawa would greatly impact the return on Ozuna or Yelich. They are only 1 year deals for relatively little money...and Ozuna and Yelich are such bargains as it is. Adding Prado could be slightly more promblematic in terms of getting better prospects.

[Erick]

More I think about it, the more I think Yelich should absolutely be traded by the way. Why wouldn't you deal him now?

[tjfla]

I don’t think attaching Ziegler or Tazawa would greatly impact the return on Ozuna or Yelich. They are only 1 year deals for relatively little money...and Ozuna and Yelich are such bargains as it is. Adding Prado could be slightly more promblematic in terms of getting better prospects.

It won't instead of 2 lower level prospect u might only get 1. When people say lesser value they assume that means instead of Top 3 prospect they might get Top 10 but in reality if just means instead of Flaherty,Alcantara,ML OF and 2 prospects u get the same deal but only 1 prospect

Its like if Yelich goes to Philly

Philly-Yelich
Miami-Moniak,Sixto Sanchez,JP Crawford and 2 other prospects

or
Philly-Yelich and Volquez(Contract)
Miami-Moniak,Sixto Sanchez,JP Crawford and 1 prospects(maybe 2 still just not as good)

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More I think about it, the more I think Yelich should absolutely be traded by the way. Why wouldn't you deal him now?

Because then it would be a FULL REBUILD and people would complain

[Erick]

It won't instead of 2 lower level prospect u might only get 1. When people say lesser value they assume that means instead of Top 3 prospect they might get Top 10 but in reality if just means instead of Flaherty,Alcantara,ML OF and 2 prospects u get the same deal but only 1 prospect

Its like if Yelich goes to Philly

Philly-Yelich
Miami-Moniak,Sixto Sanchez,JP Crawford and 2 other prospects

or
Philly-Yelich and Volquez(Contract)
Miami-Moniak,Sixto Sanchez,JP Crawford and 1 prospects(maybe 2 still just not as good)

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Because then it would be a FULL REBUILD and people would complain

Sounds good to me. Trade both of them.

[tjfla]

If u wanna know why Starlin Castro's market is growing


Jon HeymanVerified account
@JonHeyman

Neil Walker has been seeking a four year deal. Few 2B options on free agent market (Yunel another) but lots of trade talks (Castro kipnis kinsler Hernandez Harrison etc.)

4/40 at least for Neil Walker or 2/22 for Castro?

[Ralph]

U know Guaimaro was #26-28 on our list before these trades right? He is probably #31 right now on MLB.com so ya Devers should be a Top 30 prospect. Same age but Devers is a defensive SS

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No clue who it is but was mentioned we are likely taking a NYY guy in the Rule 5(if there at #13) and might just trade for his rights as part of the Stanton deal. I heard it was a P tho

If its a pitcher either Jose Mesa Jr or Nestor Cortes.

[sports24/7]

It won't instead of 2 lower level prospect u might only get 1. When people say lesser value they assume that means instead of Top 3 prospect they might get Top 10 but in reality if just means instead of Flaherty,Alcantara,ML OF and 2 prospects u get the same deal but only 1 prospect

Its like if Yelich goes to Philly

Philly-Yelich
Miami-Moniak,Sixto Sanchez,JP Crawford and 2 other prospects

or
Philly-Yelich and Volquez(Contract)
Miami-Moniak,Sixto Sanchez,JP Crawford and 1 prospects(maybe 2 still just not as good)

Well, that's a little bit different than what Manso is suggesting. If it's not really going to hurt your return, that's fine. Manso said trading Ozuna or Yelich is more about unloading a bad contract with them. That suggests the priority is moving the contracts, a la the Stanton deal, and the return doesn't matter as much. That would be unacceptable.

[lou]

More I think about it, the more I think Yelich should absolutely be traded by the way. Why wouldn't you deal him now?

Because he is an unquestionable star signed for cheap for 5 years, ages 26-30(!), and he can survive a 2-3 year rebuild and be one of the best 3 players on a contending team smack in his prime. They likely won't be able to find someone who can replace his production, let alone at that price. He's very different from Stanton who had the monster contract, and Ozuna who is only under 2 years of control and all indications point to him maxing out a contract with Boras.

They will get enough more pitching prospects with moving Ozuna, Straily, Castro, and Bour to add to Rogers, Garret, Guzman, Neidert, M. Gonzalez, Peters, and Kolek where that can reasonably be projected for most/all of a longterm SP rotation even with a 50%+ flame out rate.

You can never say never, but unless it's the Herschel Walker package, you keep him. He and Realmuto (assuming a 5 year buyout) is an excellent 2 players to build around with the pitching coming in 1-2 years.

[tjfla]

If its a pitcher either Jose Mesa Jr or Nestor Cortes.

Mesa Jr,Cortes,Coshaw,Feyereisen,Tarpley all options. Like said no clue who they are looking at but heard it. Take 1 of them then trade $10,000 or so for "rights" to keep in system. Would be part of Stanton trade

[tjfla]

NYY/SD trade

Headley/Bryan Mitchell to SD for Jabari Blash

Looks like SD might be ready to start rebuild