Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[fish16]

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-...didnt-mess-up/

This fangraphs article does a fantastic job summing up both sides of the argument.

[Namaste]

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-...didnt-mess-up/

This fangraphs article does a fantastic job summing up both sides of the argument.

“But, of course, the Marlins aren’t going to reinvest the savings. And that’s the lousy part. Instead of this being a rational decision based on the ability to acquire more value by spreading the money around instead of concentrating it one high-risk asset, the reality is that the Stanton money will go towards paying down the debt accrued by Loria because he and his son-in-law ran the team like drunken sailors.”

[fish16]

“But, of course, the Marlins aren’t going to reinvest the savings. And that’s the lousy part. Instead of this being a rational decision based on the ability to acquire more value by spreading the money around instead of concentrating it one high-risk asset, the reality is that the Stanton money will go towards paying down the debt accrued by Loria because he and his son-in-law ran the team like drunken sailors.”

they could certainly do that, and ill criticize the hell out of them if they do, but is there any indication this is the actual case? Like what have they done or said that has made people so sure that they wont reinvest in the draft and IFA?

[flamarlins93]

Why are you so adamant that they will? So far they have giving no reason to believe or believe in them.

Also do you consider Albert Guaimaro one of the Marlins top 30 prospects?

[fish16]

Why are you so adamant that they will? So far they have giving no reason to believe or believe in them.

Also do you consider Albert Guaimaro one of the Marlins top 30 prospects?

Not that im saying you need to trust their word, but so far theyve given every indication that they plan on investing in the farm system, at least that's what theyve said. Nothing theyve done thus far has shown that they wont be investing smartly on the draft and IFA.

Also, youve already asked that question and i know youre gonna say that he's not even in our top 30. Im aware. I think he was highly touted when we signed him and there are plenty of those guys on that mlb.com top 30 list that have 0 potential and dont deserve to be on there.

[Namaste]

they could certainly do that, and ill criticize the hell out of them if they do, but is there any indication this is the actual case? Like what have they done or said that has made people so sure that they wont reinvest in the draft and IFA?

They’re broke?

It’s painfully obvious they’re broke after buying the team.

[fish16]

They’re broke?

It’s painfully obvious they’re broke after buying the team.

it's really not. Not being willing to take multi million dollar losses doesnt mean broke. They might not be flush with cash, but i think there is so much overreaction about their finances. I think calling them broke is an unbelievable stretch.

[Namaste]

If they had big time, don’t even give a fuck money (like the vast majority of pro sports franchise owners) they would have kicked more money to NYY and we’d have - at a minimum - one of NYY’s top 3 prospects.

I can’t believe you’re even debating this with me.

[flamarlins93]

Seeing on twitter if someone will take Prado the Marlins will basically give them Ozuna for nothing. Hope this is a false rumor.

[fish16]

If they had big time, don’t even give a fuck money (like the vast majority of pro sports franchise owners) they would have kicked more money to NYY and we’d have - at a minimum - one of NYY’s top 3 prospects.

I can’t believe you’re even debating this with me.

That’s simply not true, especially due to Stanton’s ntc combined with not accepting a trade to St. Louis or the giants combined with the fact the other teams on his list didn’t really appear to be interested. And no, most owners don’t have the money to the point where they are willing to lose tens of millions a year. Even micky Arison made money conscious roster decisions in the midst of the big 3 era.

[flamarlins93]

https://twitter.com/WillManso/status/940239188078850048

[sports24/7]

https://twitter.com/WillManso/status/940239188078850048

If they dump either of those guys for less than full value just to get rid of a bad contract, I may actually be done with this team. You will easily be able to get to your number without doing that. Everything from here on out has to be about building your farm system. Sacrificing that would be dooming this team moving forward, and the league should absolutely not allow that bullshit.

[Ralph]

Ok so I really hope they trade Justin Bour now beOn Mike Ford

Here’s Denbo talking about him a few months ago....

He's come a long way in this organization and I'm not necessarily talking about his offense. We always knew that Mike could hit, but he's worked extremely hard on his defense. That was one objective that we had over the last couple seasons and he's turned himself into an average defensive player at first base. He's made that a priority and he's a much more well-rounded player than he was a couple years ago. You can't discount the importance of defense at first base and you see it when you have guys who come off a DH role and try to go over and it's not easy to do. Mike Ford has become an average defense player over there and when you put that together with his offensive capabilities and his potential to hit for power, which he's showing now at the Triple-A level, he's put himself in position to be considered an option for our major league club if needed.cause I fell in love with a guy in the rule v draft. Mike Ford

.

http://www.trentonian.com/sports/201...ther-prospects

http://m.milb.com/milb/player/645801

[fish16]

If they dump either of those guys for less than full value just to get rid of a bad contract, I may actually be done with this team. You will easily be able to get to your number without doing that. Everything from here on out has to be about building your farm system. Sacrificing that would be dooming this team moving forward, and the league should absolutely not allow that bullshit.

Im not sure if Mish tweeted that in another tweet, but Mish's tweet that manso is commenting on says nothing like that.

[lou]

If they dump either of those guys for less than full value just to get rid of a bad contract, I may actually be done with this team. You will easily be able to get to your number without doing that. Everything from here on out has to be about building your farm system. Sacrificing that would be dooming this team moving forward, and the league should absolutely not allow that bullshit.

Yep. Trading Ozuna, Castro, Straily, and Bour, and eating half of Prado, Ziegler, and Tazawa will be a low $50s number in 2018 payroll. (It's also not like Dietrich and his est. $4 million isn't disposable either.) $60 is their stated number, so any reduced packages for the first 4 by attaching the later 3 is 100% a dump and not a baseball move.

I feel (a little) for the new ownership group as they inherited a mess, but at the same time, they do have a responsibility to look forward while fixing the issues and you can't just focus solely on the "debt" and ignore building the team. They have to do both. Dumping these guys to save negligible money would set them back another 1-2 years, and they are already 2-4 years out from contending as is.

Buying out Realmuto for 5+ and maxing out Ozuna, Castro, Straily, and Bour are strong baseball moves to respectability. That should add pretty significantly to Rogers, Garret, Guzman, Neidert, M. Gonzalez, Peters, and I guess Kolek, and I think everyone would be OK with that all things considered.