Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[tjfla]

who says he would not be able to opt out in a few years no matter where he goes? That would probably be best for all parties involved anyway. Him being traded doesnt mean he has to opt in. SOme teams might want it, but it is in no way guaranteed if he he is traded.

He probably will if he keeps killing the ball and gets a bigger contract but much like Chen down here and Cubans $$$$ talks. No one is greedy until they get that guaranteed cash

But ya the more teams he has on his list the more we can get for him. If he has 4 or 5 teams on the list then u will get alot more than if he stays with SF/LA only

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https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...n-sweepstakes/

[fish16]

I know we've talked about this a bunch, I just dont see Stanton waiving his NTC for STL. Maybe a east coast big market like Boston, but not midwest. Ozuna is the guy i see going to Stl.

It's gonna take time, I know, but i just wish we could see the returns that we're gonna get on these guys already.

[sports24/7]

How do we have the bargaining power? If Stanton gives us LA and SF as the only 2 teams and we say no then his contract stays on the books till he opts out and goes where he wants. I agree he is worth Top prospects but if u only have 2 teams fighting for him instead of 10 then u arent getting that

Exatly how we need to build-if u noticed Houston and Cubs neither really went with quality they went to quantity. They made trades and instead of asking for Top 3 Prospect they asked for 2 Top 10 and a low level prospect,hit the IFA market hard and instead of drafting a Top 5 talent then Round 3/4 talent with the first picks they drafted 3 Round 1 prospects

Houston 2012 draft-They take Carlos Correa #1(was a Top 7-10 prospect but took him to save cash),Lance McCullers #41(Was a Top 15 Prospect but asking price was nuts) then used more savings for Rio Ruiz,Brett Phillips,Preston Tucker

The Marlins have the bargaining power because they don't actually have to trade Stanton. They obviously want to get his contract off the books, but doing so without getting great value back is detrimental. Stanton does not want to finish his prime on a rebuilding team. He can say he wants to play for only 2 teams all he wants, but I think if the Marlins call his bluff on that, he'll relent.

As for how the Astros rebuilt, Altuve was lucky, but some of their best players were elite prospects. Correa was not seen as the the #1 player in his draft class, but he ended up being arguably the best. The point is, you need those high end players with superstar potential. Because of that, you need to be going after the high end players. If you're trading Stanton, Ozuna, Gordon, and others, you are easily going to re-stock your system with quantity. So at that's already covered. Within each of those deals, they should be going for quality.

[fish16]

The Marlins have the bargaining power because they don't actually have to trade Stanton. They obviously want to get his contract off the books, but doing so without getting great value back is detrimental. Stanton does not want to finish his prime on a rebuilding team. He can say he wants to play for only 2 teams all he wants, but I think if the Marlins call his bluff on that, he'll relent.

As for how the Astros rebuilt, Altuve was lucky, but some of their best players were elite prospects. Correa was not seen as the the #1 player in his draft class, but he ended up being arguably the best. The point is, you need those high end players with superstar potential. Because of that, you need to be going after the high end players. If you're trading Stanton, Ozuna, Gordon, and others, you are easily going to re-stock your system with quantity. So at that's already covered. Within each of those deals, they should be going for quality.

agree 100% on everything. The astros and cubs are the model standards we should be looking for. Especially towards the Astros when it comes to drafting.

[rmc523]

Here's a good article discussing potential Stanton landing spots. It doesn't mention potential returns or anything, but discusses the overall situation of each club they mention. There are too many to try to quote it.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/...o-stanton.html

[tjfla]

The Marlins have the bargaining power because they don't actually have to trade Stanton. They obviously want to get his contract off the books, but doing so without getting great value back is detrimental. Stanton does not want to finish his prime on a rebuilding team. He can say he wants to play for only 2 teams all he wants, but I think if the Marlins call his bluff on that, he'll relent.

As for how the Astros rebuilt, Altuve was lucky, but some of their best players were elite prospects. Correa was not seen as the the #1 player in his draft class, but he ended up being arguably the best. The point is, you need those high end players with superstar potential. Because of that, you need to be going after the high end players. If you're trading Stanton, Ozuna, Gordon, and others, you are easily going to re-stock your system with quantity. So at that's already covered. Within each of those deals, they should be going for quality.

They were elite but most of them they got by great trades and drafts. They got Francis Martes and Daz Cameron from us as the "throw ins",they got McCullers Jr because instead of Buxton or college pitcher they took Correa(saved lots of cash) and still have enough cash for him. They had so many good prospects they started giving them away just to get MLB talent(see Milwaukee trade)

We had the same chance but instead of saving cash and taking Trea Turner,Aaron Nola we overspent for Tyler Kolek and then took 2 guys who can't even get out of Gboro

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Here's a good article discussing potential Stanton landing spots. It doesn't mention potential returns or anything, but discusses the overall situation of each club they mention. There are too many to try to quote it.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/...o-stanton.html

His realistic landing spots are LA,SF,Boston,St Louis,Toronto

Ozuna and Yelich on the other hand could go anywhere. If 2 or 3 teams are in on JD Martinez dont be surprised to see the other teams who miss out to go hard after Ozuna

We should start hearing stuff by next Monday when the GM Meetings start

[fish16]

Drafting and actually spending money in the draft is more important long term than these trades. We need to start consistently spending money in the draft and IFA or all of this is meaningless.

Bob Nightengale just tweeted that the Cardinals or Giants will likely get Stanton and that anything else would be a "stunning upset." If he accepts a trade to the cardinals that would be an incredible break for us. Reyes, Dakota, Alcantara, Bader for Stanton and we could also throw in a reliever since their bullpen let them down last year.

Then deal Ozuna to the Blue Jays and get Vlad JR and Reid Foley and we have just seriously expedited the rebuild. I'd probably trade Realmuto too if he gets 2 top 100 prospects and another really good prospect. Keep Yelich though I think, but honestly, if we get absolutely blown away with an offer, trade him too.

[tjfla]

Drafting and actually spending money in the draft is more important long term than these trades. We need to start consistently spending money in the draft and IFA or all of this is meaningless.

Bob Nightengale just tweeted that the Cardinals or Giants will likely get Stanton and that anything else would be a "stunning upset." If he accepts a trade to the cardinals that would be an incredible break for us. Reyes, Dakota, Alcantara, Bader for Stanton and we could also throw in a reliever since their bullpen let them down last year.

Then deal Ozuna to the Blue Jays and get Vlad JR and Reid Foley and we have just seriously expedited the rebuild. I'd probably trade Realmuto too if he gets 2 top 100 prospects and another really good prospect. Keep Yelich though I think, but honestly, if we get absolutely blown away with an offer, trade him too.

Well the draft isn't like it used to be but what they need to do is find ways to get more cash for the draft(Trades) and actually drafting talent. Dont take guys Ranked #490 in Round 3 because of projection. Spending all of your IFA cash should also be a priority

I would say Cards are favorite too IF he puts them on his list. THing is they would need to throw in cash but probably could even get more than your deal if they did include cash. Wouldnt be suprising to see Stanton,RP(Bearclaw or Ziegler) and cash to St Louis for Jack Flaherty,Dakota Hudson,Junior Fernandez,2 or 3 more prospects and a ML OF(Grichuk,Piscotty). Maybe try to get St Louis to include their Supplemental 1st Rd Pick for 2018?

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From Nightengale


Bob NightengaleVerified account
@BNightengale
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Giancarlo Stanton would love to be traded to the #Dodgers or #Angels but neither team has shown even the slightest of interest considering he's still owed $295 million

Bob NightengaleVerified account @BNightengale · 18m18 minutes ago

It would be a stunning upset if #Marlins OF Giancarlo Stanton is traded anywhere besides the #Stlcards or #SFGiants. They each have the money to pull it off, and Cards have loaded farm system, if necessary

Angels took selves out when they resigned Upton. Reason Cards are ahead of SF is they have ML Ready SP which is what we really want

[fish16]

SF has literally nothing that is remotely appealing to me for a Stanton trade. Better be STL or BOS if LAD arent interested.

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After looking more at Hudson, I wouldnt mind him being part of the trade. I didnt like the fact that he doesnt K many guys, but if we get someone like Reyes, add Hudson, and then another hard throwing projectible arm like Alcantara and then an OF prospect like Arosazena for Stanton and then another reliever like ziegler, that would be an incredible haul and we just made our rotation a strongpoint immediately.

Then you trade Ozuna to the blue jays for Vlad Jr and other prospects and we are looking incredible as far as a rebuild relatively speaking.

[sports24/7]

They were elite but most of them they got by great trades and drafts. They got Francis Martes and Daz Cameron from us as the "throw ins",they got McCullers Jr because instead of Buxton or college pitcher they took Correa(saved lots of cash) and still have enough cash for him. They had so many good prospects they started giving them away just to get MLB talent(see Milwaukee trade)

We had the same chance but instead of saving cash and taking Trea Turner,Aaron Nola we overspent for Tyler Kolek and then took 2 guys who can't even get out of Gboro

I understand what you're saying, but in the end they didn't get a lesser player to save money for another good player. Correa turned into a star. If Correa was seen as the player he's become, and was asking for a lot of money, and they still went the money saving route with a player that didn't end up being a star, they wouldn't be the team they are today. It worked because they scouted right and/or got lucky. In the trade market, you have a little bit more of an idea of what kind of potential these guys have, so it's a little bit different.

[tjfla]

SF has literally nothing that is remotely appealing to me for a Stanton trade. Better be STL or BOS if LAD arent interested.

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After looking more at Hudson, I wouldnt mind him being part of the trade. I didnt like the fact that he doesnt K many guys, but if we get someone like Reyes, add Hudson, and then another hard throwing projectible arm like Alcantara and then an OF prospect like Arosazena for Stanton and then another reliever like ziegler, that would be an incredible haul and we just made our rotation a strongpoint immediately.

Then you trade Ozuna to the blue jays for Vlad Jr and other prospects and we are looking incredible as far as a rebuild relatively speaking.

U won't get Hudson and Alcantara. We will be looking at Alex Reyes(off injury) or Jack Flaherty as the ML Ready SP/Centerpiece. Then Hudson or Alcantara as #2 SP(St Louis like Alcantara more and Mike Hill has a crush on Hudson). There is no point in throwing out names after Flaherty,Reyes,Hudson because St Louis has such a deep system we could go in about 100 different directions. Its gonna be about what guy they have seen at the complex and love-the one positive about trading with St Louis is u know exactly what they have since we share complex(Reason why they got Bearclaw-he was in AA and FO knew he was ready for majors so they jumped on him)

ML Ready Bats-Carson Kelly,Piscotty,Bader,Jose Adonis Garcia,O'Neill,Martinez
ML Ready Arms-Zac Gallen,Austin Gomber
Mid Level Arms-Alcantara,Junior Fernandez,Jordan Hicks,Connor Jones,
Mid Level Bats-Arozarena,Sierra,Andrew Knizer,Oscar Mercado
Low Level Bats-Delvin Perez,Edmundo Sosa,Machado

Its sick on how many solid prospects they have plus they get a Supplemental #1 in 2018(which can be valuable to us-more draft pool $)

As for Ozuna-Vlad Jr,Zeuch and another prospect or 2 would be nice but reality is 25 teams(from Minn/Oak to NYY/Hou) could be in on him. Not sure they will trade Vlad Jr but we should be able to get a great deal for him!!!

[fish16]

didnt even think about the aspect of us sharing a complex up in jupiter with the cards so we might have a little more knowledge of their system than another random team.

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and in regards to tjfla's comment about how good their system is: it's unreal. Just going through their top 30 list and i dont know if they somehow had a shit ton more picks than every other team, but it is as if they hit on every early round pick in the last few drafts. Who knows the MLB potential of some of their guys, but the numbers on the guys in their systems that they put up this past year are incredible. Our best prospects rarely even put up numbers, and their lesser prospects are putting up really solid numbers.

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In regards to Ozuna, I wish the braves would show interest in him because they could give us a huge haul as well, but i havent heard a peep regarding them.

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Man, just talking to some STL fans, if we could get Flaherty/Weaver, Hudson/Alcantara, and then Bader, plus another low level high potential arm, that is an incredible start to a rebuild for a guy who's contract (though i vehemently disagree) is considered untouchable.

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I doubt they give up Reyes, so I see us having to choose between Weaver or Flaherty and im really interested to see who we would choose. Flaherty apparently has one more year of team control and is 2 years younger according to Spotrac so I think that could play a role in who we choose.

[fish16]

Super, super ahead of myself, but say we get Flaherty, Hudson, Bader, and a lesser prospect for Stanton
then ozuna for Vlad JR (obviously if they cave on that, which i doubt they will, but just for the sake of argument) and Reid-Foley
Then Dee Gordon for a reliever with Dietrich replacing him full time at 2b.
Trade Straily to the Brewers for Ortiz and Burnes. Marlins would probably need to add another piece, but do it without question.

We keep Bour just because he is super cheap for a few years and could probably improve his value if he just stays healthy.... look at our team fo next year and for the foreseeable future.....

C- Realmuto
1b-Bour
2b- Dietrich
SS- I'd love a way to trade a reliever like Barraclough for Profar as a high potential play, but realistically Rojas
3b- Anderson
Lf- Vlad Jr. (top 5 prospect in all of baseball)
Cf- Yelich
Rf- Bader (top 100 prospect)

SP's- Flaherty, Hudson (or alcantara), Urena, Reid-Foley, Peters, Burnes, Ortiz, Conley, Chen if he can stay healthy with prospects like Rogers, Garrett, Merandy Gonzalez, maybe Kolek?

That is an incredible start in the first year of a rebuild... Even if we have to replace Vlad Jr. with Bichette. And that is without a concerted effort to tank and invest in the draft and/or IFA. Only long term deal or any kind of upcoming free agency would be Yelich (on a cheap ass deal). That would be incredible. God damn i wish i was in charge of this rebuild.

[rmc523]

It was expected, but Mattingly will stay as manager.

[Ralph]

What’s the deal with Shohei Otani? Apparently he’s going to come extremely cheap. If that’s true I don’t know why they would have kept Ichiro around and truene to go after him.