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Marlins to Acquire Dan Straily

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  • #16
    To clarify my point. My problem is not with this trade in particular, though it is absolutely dreadful value. MY problem is with the consistent organizational philosophy, or lack thereof. There is not philosophy at all. They dont make moves with a common purpose or overall organizational philosophy, they make moves when they see fit, and their vision is horrific. Not to mention they have proven time and time again they simply do not understand the concept of buying low and selling high. How many times do we have to continue to buy other teams assets at their peak value, while trading ours away at their floor?

    Another thing that bothers me is the "he's controlled" argument. They can sign me for 7 years at a minimum salary and control me, that doesnt make me a quality asset. We just gave up 2 of our better pitching prospects, not that that is saying anything, for a guy who had an aberration of a year and a 4.88 FIP with a shit ton of HR's given up. His peripherals scream regression. Further, we continue to give up assets when not very expensive alternatives are available via free agency. We could have spent money like an MLB team and signed Hammel or Fister, yet we gave up 2 assets to acquire at best a #4 starter, and at worse a guy who will flame out like he has done a few times in his career.

    With that being said, i do like our rotation a little more, but we are still nowhere near a playoff team. If we did this and then signed a few more bats to pair a prolific offense and solid bullpen with an average at best rotation, i would be ok with that. But you know we will not do that, and we will be stuck with a shitty bench/shitty player starting a lot of games once someone in our lineup goes down. If we countered this move by also signing Napoli and a better 4th outfielder who is more capable than Ichiro of starting significant games once one of our OF's goes down, i'd be much more OK with this.

    But this argument of "well the front office doesnt care about 2 years from now, why should we?" is a garbage argument from a fans perspective. I will be a fan long after this ownership sells, and I hate these continued short sighted moves. This idea that we have a garbage farm system anyway so we shouldnt value guys who are there currently is just awful.

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    Chris CotilloVerified account
    ‏@ChrisCotillo
    NL scout: "Trade a real head-scratcher. Marlins had offers at deadline to trade Castillo straight up for big-league SPs."
    That scout is an idiot. When you have the opportunity to improve from a 74 win team to a 76 win team for 3 assets, you gotta do it.

    Comment


    • #17
      Once again, the Marlins prove they're always going to buy high (provided they don't have to spend actual money to do so) and sell low. They should write that on Loria's tombstone.

      Comment


      • #18
        the thing i just dont get is if they had an amount of money they were willing to spend if they were going to get Chapman or one of those closers, why is that money not available now to improve the rotation instead of giving up assets? We are just run like such a minor league organization it is hard to be a fan. And its not just the lack of money, it is the complete lack of operating like a low payroll team. There are so many well run low budget teams in this league, it is hard to believe we are still stuck with these morons in our front office.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by fish16 View Post
          To clarify my point. My problem is not with this trade in particular, though it is absolutely dreadful value. MY problem is with the consistent organizational philosophy, or lack thereof. There is not philosophy at all. They dont make moves with a common purpose or overall organizational philosophy, they make moves when they see fit, and their vision is horrific. Not to mention they have proven time and time again they simply do not understand the concept of buying low and selling high. How many times do we have to continue to buy other teams assets at their peak value, while trading ours away at their floor?

          Another thing that bothers me is the "he's controlled" argument. They can sign me for 7 years at a minimum salary and control me, that doesnt make me a quality asset. We just gave up 2 of our better pitching prospects, not that that is saying anything, for a guy who had an aberration of a year and a 4.88 FIP with a shit ton of HR's given up. His peripherals scream regression. Further, we continue to give up assets when not very expensive alternatives are available via free agency. We could have spent money like an MLB team and signed Hammel or Fister, yet we gave up 2 assets to acquire at best a #4 starter, and at worse a guy who will flame out like he has done a few times in his career.

          With that being said, i do like our rotation a little more, but we are still nowhere near a playoff team. If we did this and then signed a few more bats to pair a prolific offense and solid bullpen with an average at best rotation, i would be ok with that. But you know we will not do that, and we will be stuck with a shitty bench/shitty player starting a lot of games once someone in our lineup goes down. If we countered this move by also signing Napoli and a better 4th outfielder who is more capable than Ichiro of starting significant games once one of our OF's goes down, i'd be much more OK with this.

          But this argument of "well the front office doesnt care about 2 years from now, why should we?" is a garbage argument from a fans perspective. I will be a fan long after this ownership sells, and I hate these continued short sighted moves. This idea that we have a garbage farm system anyway so we shouldnt value guys who are there currently is just awful.

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          That scout is an idiot. When you have the opportunity to improve from a 74 win team to a 76 win team for 3 assets, you gotta do it.
          Its about $$ too. Hammel/Fister want mult year deals for 10 million a year. Straily is under control for maybe 10 million for 4 years. U keep failing to realize that minor league players mean nothing to this FO other than to get guys who can help us win now!! Brice and White(Steckenrider and Dalton Wheat take their spots) are easily replaceable pieces especially when we have guys like Wittgren/Ellington sitting in AAA. Luis Castillo was solid but they don't think he will hold up as a SP which is why they kept trying to move him in deals

          Thats the thing-all of us will be fans when ownership sells. Jeff's "future" is till 2019 after that he could care less. He wants lots of All Stars for his game and to hopefully win a WS before he sells. His vision is try to win/make as much cash as he can then sell and rebuilding the team will be the new owners job.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by tjfla View Post
            Its about $$ too. Hammel/Fister want mult year deals for 10 million a year. Straily is under control for maybe 10 million for 4 years. U keep failing to realize that minor league players mean nothing to this FO other than to get guys who can help us win now!! Brice and White(Steckenrider and Dalton Wheat take their spots) are easily replaceable pieces especially when we have guys like Wittgren/Ellington sitting in AAA. Luis Castillo was solid but they don't think he will hold up as a SP which is why they kept trying to move him in deals

            Thats the thing-all of us will be fans when ownership sells. Jeff's "future" is till 2019 after that he could care less. He wants lots of All Stars for his game and to hopefully win a WS before he sells. His vision is try to win/make as much cash as he can then sell and rebuilding the team will be the new owners job.
            I dont fail to realize that at all. I think it is absurd that you seem to be ok with that and accept it. And if they are selling off the farm, please do so less incompetently.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by fish16 View Post
              I dont fail to realize that at all. I think it is absurd that you seem to be ok with that and accept it.
              Well might as well accept reality. Reality is its ALL IN till 2019. If that means overpaying for guys who can help today they will.

              I think its stupid as hell but its like a guy on his deathbed. He could care less what happens 2 years from now because he won't be around to see it anyways

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tjfla View Post
                Well might as well accept reality. Reality is its ALL IN till 2019. If that means overpaying for guys who can help today they will.

                I think its stupid as hell but its like a guy on his deathbed. He could care less what happens 2 years from now because he won't be around to see it anyways
                And that would be fine, if they did so and acquired quality talent and made good deals. We continue to make absolutely horrific deals on top of raiding the farm system. The cashner trade was terrible and obviously bad when we made it. You can go back and see my posts where i called that a terrible deal from the start. This front office is absolutely terrible at recognizing quality trades.

                - - - - - - - - - -

                And the continual buying high and selling low is mind boggling.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by fish16 View Post
                  And that would be fine, if they did so and acquired quality talent and made good deals. We continue to make absolutely horrific deals on top of raiding the farm system. The cashner trade was terrible and obviously bad when we made it. You can go back and see my posts where i called that a terrible deal from the start. This front office is absolutely terrible at recognizing quality trades.

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                  And the continual buying high and selling low is mind boggling.
                  Buying High/Selling Low also has to do with $$. If Straily contract had 3 yrs/21 million left on it we would probably be alot less interested and would cost us less prospects. Instead of paying Jason Hammel 2 yrs 22 million,Jeff decided to pay Straily likely 2 yrs 8 million

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                  • #24
                    If Jeff mortgaging the future to win while still being a cheap-ass means we'll have a new owner in 2 years, then well have at it. I could complain about short-sighted moves and lack of spending with Loria and Co., but I've been doing it for 15 years now so it's kinda lost it's meaning at this point.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by tjfla View Post
                      Buying High/Selling Low also has to do with $$. If Straily contract had 3 yrs/21 million left on it we would probably be alot less interested and would cost us less prospects. Instead of paying Jason Hammel 2 yrs 22 million,Jeff decided to pay Straily likely 2 yrs 8 million
                      Awesome, he saves money while getting a player who is probably going to be worse and gives up assets to do so, rather than not shipping off assets, for a guy coming off a career year who by all indications was extremely lucky to get the results he did last year. He saves money, the team is likely not much better, and we lose! This team makes rooting for them hard. I wish i had the ability to just change who i root for.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by fish16 View Post
                        Awesome, he saves money while getting a player who is probably going to be worse and gives up assets to do so, rather than not shipping off assets, for a guy coming off a career year who by all indications was extremely lucky to get the results he did last year. He saves money, the team is likely not much better, and we lose! This team makes rooting for them hard. I wish i had the ability to just change who i root for.
                        U know they have a team in Tampa right?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by tjfla View Post
                          U know they have a team in Tampa right?
                          and as i was saying, i wish i had the ability to change who i root for. Im a marlins fan no matter the owner or situation and i cant help that they are my team at this point in my life.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by fish16 View Post
                            and as i was saying, i wish i had the ability to change who i root for. Im a marlins fan no matter the owner or situation and i cant help that they are my team at this point in my life.
                            and as I was saying,Go become a Rays fan and then when Jeff sells u can jump back on the bandwagon.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tjfla View Post
                              and as I was saying,Go become a Rays fan and then when Jeff sells u can jump back on the bandwagon.
                              and again, as i was saying, if i had the ability to change who i root for i would have done so long ago.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                A shiny 5.02 xFIP last year. BUT 14 WINZ!!!!!

                                I obviously hope this works out extremely well for the Marlins but this a HUGH buy high.

                                And like others have said, if this means no Loria in 2 years I'll take it.

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