Originally posted by fish16
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Miami Marlins 2016 Offseason Discussion Thread
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Originally posted by rmc523 View PostObviously it's moot at this point, but the thing is, advocating for a pick over spending a ton of money on a closer would make sense in any other organization, but this one has proved that they can't draft either (lately anyway, obviously we have guys like Ozuna, Stanton, Yelich, Jose, etc,) or the top guys either haven't worked out or were shipped out in terrible trades. So you were advocating for something that would've been wasted anyway, as you correctly point out that it's blatantly obvious that the organization has no plan for the future, especially now with Loria selling.
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Originally posted by fish16 View PostHaving drafted bad previously is a horrific excuse for getting rid of future first round draft picks for the easiest to find position on a small market team. I understand your argument, but 2 wrongs dont make a right (in this case, fucking up draft picks doesnt mean the move is to abandon future first round picks for the easiest position to fill in baseball). And you cant just say aside from Stanton, Yelich, Realmuto, Jose, Heaney, and lower round guys. Those guys are all quality major leaguers that we got early in the draft/
It doesn't really matter anymore, as it's a moot point now.
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Originally posted by fish16 View PostHaving drafted bad previously is a horrific excuse for getting rid of future first round draft picks for the easiest to find position on a small market team. I understand your argument, but 2 wrongs dont make a right (in this case, fucking up draft picks doesnt mean the move is to abandon future first round picks for the easiest position to fill in baseball). And you cant just say aside from Stanton, Yelich, Realmuto, Jose, Heaney, and lower round guys. Those guys are all quality major leaguers that we got early in the draft/
Our issue(not last year)is we still draft based on cash. Perfect example is Josh Stabbor-Top 40 talent NOT Top 15 talent but he gave us a deal and we got to save some cash. We really didn't need to save any but we did anyways. MLB gives u the exact amount u should offer a guy and good teams use this to their advantage
If u want to see how the new system helps a team-just look at Houston or Atlanta LY. They drafted the BPA on their boards without caring about the money and got like 5 guys who were Top 50 prospects
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Talking about draft picks
Trevor Williams is still in the running for 5th spot in Pirates rotation. Would have been a nice option for us.
Yep the guy we traded for a coach!! Like been saying just lazy FO work by us-a team wants something and we just say yes instead of doing homework. DFA is same crap-instead of talking to a team we just let the guy leave
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Originally posted by tjfla View PostTalking about draft picks
Trevor Williams is still in the running for 5th spot in Pirates rotation. Would have been a nice option for us.
Yep the guy we traded for a coach!! Like been saying just lazy FO work by us-a team wants something and we just say yes instead of doing homework. DFA is same crap-instead of talking to a team we just let the guy leave
And who is still around from those trades? Dee Gordon, Telis, Straily, Cervenka?
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Benedict's job wasn't ever, nor was it supposed to be, working with those guys (many of whom were traded before we even hired him)
Trevor Williams had a nice outing todayOriginally posted by Madman81Most of the people in the world being dumb is not a requirement for you to be among their ranks.
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Originally posted by fish16 View PostNot only that, but has there been any noticeable change with the guy we got whose name is escaping me right now? Just look at all of the names we have given up in recent years: Heaney, Desclafani, Williams, Dayton, Dyson, Martes, Luis Castillo, Paddock(although he had TJ), Capps, Mader, Hatcher, Dan Jennings.
And who is still around from those trades? Dee Gordon, Telis, Straily, Cervenka?
My point was they did Pitt a good faith solid for "signing" 2 guys in the FO and instead of negotiating the FO is so damn lazy Pitt prolly said give us Trevor Williams and its cool. When we traded for Ozzie we gave up Marinez and Ozzie Martinez. 2 guys who have done nothing but werent bad players when dealt. When we got Cosart we "threw" in Martes who if we still had would be in our rotation too. U think that if we had said NO that Houston would have nixed the deal? HELL NO
Just a lazy FO-Jeff/Mike Hill who instead of saying NO and negotiating,dont have the time and just say YES when they get the guy they want
This is 1 reason that when we do trades,it looks like we always get bent over a couch. Teams know we will overpay
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Too add on most GM's know that Jeff is gone in 2 years and is desperate to win. IF we do make trades this year,don't be surprised if we overpay even more than usual. Everyone is aware that if u can't help the Marlins win by 2019 u could be had. Players/Picks/IFA Cash all in play
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Originally posted by ¿NICK? View PostWell on the brightside our minor league system is so bad it'll be hard to overpay.
We have started to change that the past 2 years but our FO/Stan Meek will always have that fascination with a guy who throws 100+ but doesn't throw anything else OR the guy who is 6'2 and built like a god but has no clue how to hit a slider
Meek's drafts are predictable AF- He likes power arms especially from MO,OK,TX/3 sport OF who can run but can't hit/2 defensive Catchers/1 position player from University of Kentucky/Lefty Arms/23 yr olds who will sign cheap with 4 or 5 surviving till the next year
A Stan Meek wet dream would be a 6'5 Lefty HS from MO/OK who threw 98-100 and might be a close one in this draft. Cody Ross's cousin(yep that Cody Ross) is Trevor Rogers. 6'6 Lefty throws 95 from NM!!!
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Another Marlins gem!!!! Blake Treinen was named Nats Closer. U might remember Blake from our few years of voided contracts due to physicals. Yep instead of signing guys and letting them rehab we had 2 or 3 years where we voided contracts
The 6'4'' right-hander was drafted in the 23rd round by the Marlins out of South Dakota State last June and flew to South Florida in anticipation of signing a professional contract. After being out of baseball for nearly three years, Treinen was just happy to have a chance to turn pro after one season of college baseball and had agreed to Florida's terms. But that's where his future plans took a huge detour. During a routine pre-signing MRI, the Marlins found enough inflammation in Treinen's rotator cuff to void his contract. The dejected Treinen was sent home, and he even had to repay his travel expenses to the Marlins in order to regain his college eligibility.
Lucky for us Jeff finally figured out that controlling the rights of an injured guy was better than not. Dillon Peters/Reilly Hovis are 2 of the guys we have gotten since he figured it outLast edited by tjfla; 03-30-2017, 12:55 PM.
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I wasnt saying that Benedict had worked with those guys. I was making 2 separate points but looking at that post i see how that got confused. I was saying we have given up a stupid amount of good players/prospects in recent years and listed them, while also making the point that I dont see any noticable difference in the guys who are here since Benedict has come over.
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Originally posted by tjfla View PostThe issue with our system is instead of baseball players(When I say baseball players I mean guys who are actually baseball players. Hit .330,can recognize pitches,have command,know the game) we have guys who play baseball(Athletes who are projects,do 1 thing well,know how to play but couldn't tell u how many teams are in MLB)
We have started to change that the past 2 years but our FO/Stan Meek will always have that fascination with a guy who throws 100+ but doesn't throw anything else OR the guy who is 6'2 and built like a god but has no clue how to hit a slider
Meek's drafts are predictable AF- He likes power arms especially from MO,OK,TX/3 sport OF who can run but can't hit/2 defensive Catchers/1 position player from University of Kentucky/Lefty Arms/23 yr olds who will sign cheap with 4 or 5 surviving till the next year
A Stan Meek wet dream would be a 6'5 Lefty HS from MO/OK who threw 98-100 and might be a close one in this draft. Cody Ross's cousin(yep that Cody Ross) is Trevor Rogers. 6'6 Lefty throws 95 from NM!!!
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Another Marlins gem!!!! Blake Treinen was named Nats Closer. U might remember Blake from our few years of voided contracts due to physicals. Yep instead of signing guys and letting them rehab we had 2 or 3 years where we voided contracts
The 6'4'' right-hander was drafted in the 23rd round by the Marlins out of South Dakota State last June and flew to South Florida in anticipation of signing a professional contract. After being out of baseball for nearly three years, Treinen was just happy to have a chance to turn pro after one season of college baseball and had agreed to Florida's terms. But that's where his future plans took a huge detour. During a routine pre-signing MRI, the Marlins found enough inflammation in Treinen's rotator cuff to void his contract. The dejected Treinen was sent home, and he even had to repay his travel expenses to the Marlins in order to regain his college eligibility.
Lucky for us Jeff finally figured out that controlling the rights of an injured guy was better than not. Dillon Peters/Reilly Hovis are 2 of the guys we have gotten since he figured it out
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On top of drafting cheaply, I really do think a lot of our problems with our prospects are player development related. Even guys we go cheap on go on to do well in other organizations. I do think it has a lot to do with completely unnecessary cheapness from Loria, but also we develop players terribly and also move them in our system in an incredibly inexplicable fashion.
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Originally posted by fish16 View PostI wasnt saying that Benedict had worked with those guys. I was making 2 separate points but looking at that post i see how that got confused. I was saying we have given up a stupid amount of good players/prospects in recent years and listed them, while also making the point that I dont see any noticable difference in the guys who are here since Benedict has come over.
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I knew I had heard that Treinen name before. Just figured it was from his time with the nats but I knew that sounded familiar. On a bright side I drafted Kelley from their bullpen thinking he was going to be their closer on a great team in the only fantasy league i pay to play in. So that worked out well.
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On top of drafting cheaply, I really do think a lot of our problems with our prospects are player development related. Even guys we go cheap on go on to do well in other organizations. I do think it has a lot to do with completely unnecessary cheapness from Loria, but also we develop players terribly and also move them in our system in an incredibly inexplicable fashion.
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Jake Esch DFA and claimed by SD(Also known as Miami West or Miami with better ownership)
Hey least it wasn't Urena but shows what I have been saying. How do we keep losing guys for NOTHING to the first team in the Waiver Claim order instead of trying to get something for him?
Looks like Tyler Moore is getting the last spot
Another question tho is Odrisamer Despaigne Jeff Loria's son as well? I know this guy is hurt but how the hell has this guy kept his spot? Samson/Mike Hill and Despaigne-Jeff takes good care of his kids!!
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