Marlins trade Mat Latos, Mike Morse to LA

[thatnewguy]

Marlins Baseball: Just Hope You're Dead Before The Phillies Catch Up

You hear that Jeff?

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Let's go Heat.

[Nick]

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I hate this fucking team.

Let me make myself 100% clear on this issue.

I'm all for these types of shenanigans.

[Erick]

For what it's worth, it's not just Stanton and Fernandez either. There are also other pieces around them that could potentially be exciting. The middle infield has gone from potential disaster to perfectly acceptable, Realmuto looks like he might not be a scrub, Yelich, etc. Basically, there isn't a glaring hole on the team with the exception of maybe 3B, which maybe wouldn't even be the case if they gave Dietrich a real chance to prove himself.

Then on the pitching side of things, you have Jose. The rest of the staff is not great, but it's been proven just this year that you can get by in this stadium with mediocre pitchers, and...well, they could always spend money on a legit pitcher or two, but I guess that's too much to ask for. They could also trade one of the position players for a young pitcher and replace the position player in free agency.

This is not to even mention other parts of the team like the bullpen which is filled with power arms, including Carter Capps who many say is arguably the nastiest pitcher in baseball right now. This team has enough relievers to actually not spend money and use a reliever to acquire SP depth or another position. But they don't do that either because mediocre teams need a closer.

They just make no sense.

[Swifty]

Basically, there isn't a glaring hole on the team with the exception of maybe 3B, which maybe wouldn't even be the case if they gave Dietrich a real chance to prove himself.

They haven't had a winning season since 2009. They haven't won 80 games since 2009. Their highest win total in the new park is 77. I'd say there are glaring holes.

[Erick]

They haven't had a winning season since 2009. They haven't won 80 games since 2009. Their highest win total in the new park is 77. I'd say there are glaring holes.

Was anything I said false based on what is currently happening? I'm not sure what 2009 has to do with this. What about 2015? What would you disagree with in my post about the players I wrote about?

[Nick]

I think the need for a 2nd Power Bat is a pretty fucking glaring hole. Even if Ozuna turns it around and becomes the player we all think he can be, we need another imposing bat to slot either in front of or behind Stanton. Plus, I would say slots 2-5 in our rotation right now are glaring holes.

[Swifty]

I don't know how you can look at this roster's recent run of results and say that there aren't any glaring holes.

With the exception of Gordon and Yelich and Stanton there is room to improve at every position. You might prioritize some above others, but this team is a collection of (outside the aforementioned trio) bottom of the lineup guys. Yeah, every team needs someone to hit 8th, the Marlins just have a ton of candidates. You can build a roster around some of the guys that you mentioned as complimentary pieces, but that's not a great route to a winning season, which is kind of the overall purpose of sports.

The pitching is a mess outside of Jose. The park masks a lot of problems, but so many of the guys are just flat out hot garbage. The Marlins only have four pitchers that would absolutely keep their role on a post season team: Jose, Capps, Ramos, Dunn (and for the relievers, just late inning high leverage spots are "jobs", Ramos probably wouldn't close on any post season team). Long term, maybe Urena or Conley develop into something.

If Jose and Stanton weren't Jose and Stanton, it'd be better to just tear it up and start over. But those two are so good the Marlins should try to put something around them. But with Ozuna taking a huge step back and Adeiny at his best still a .700 OPS guy and Realmuto always being a glove first guy, the Marlins need things to break super favorably with Bour and 3B and Gordon to play at an impossibly high level, again, for that lineup to be serviceable on a team that can win 90. More realistically, the team has to choose one of SS or C to cary a .700 bat and upgrade the other, find a legitimate middle of the lineup bat and hope Ozuna returns to form. Even then, that's leaving a lot to chance.

On the pitching side, it's a mess. They've got a lot of guys in the system that profile as a 4/5, but they need to sign a 2 and a 3.

So yeah, there's a lot more wrong than right. Which shouldn't be a revelation since they'll probably win around 70 games.

[Jay]

They haven't had a winning season since 2009. They haven't won 80 games since 2009. Their highest win total in the new park is 77. I'd say there are glaring holes.

To be fair there were years the team underperformed and was sold off before the deadline. The rotation is a disaster after jose.

[nny]

-> We need offense. We have a top-3 defensive team, but 7th worst offense. The top 5 issues: Ichiro, Morse, Mathis, Solano, Ozuna

Morse has been replaced with Bour. And while I'm not a believer of him, I mean, he at least doesn't suck ass. And Ozuna has to be better than what he's been.

Ichiro, Mathis, and Solano are mostly an issue with the fact we never have a good bench. It's hard to hate on Ichiro, but he's 8th on the team in PA with a 63 OPS+. And Mathis and Solano...nothing needs to be said about them. If we got average production out of those three, we jump to a top-10 offense.

The problem with this team? This list right here of negative WAR players: link. All of which, except for Morse, are bench players who can't hit AND can't field. This team doesn't build depth and does not build a bench. If those players gave us 0 WAR instead (replacement level results - not average results, replacement level), our position player WAR jumps to 14.8 - or 6th best in all of baseball.

Our problem is not the starters. We have, at worst, average position player starters at all 8 positions. The problem is what's behind them.

[Jay]

Is it bad that I'd like to go 2006 next year and have a minimum salary at every position

[Swifty]

Also, just to continue the thought. The roster and the lineup's needs don't exactly mesh. They need at least one more .850-ish OPS guy. It should be easiest to find that in LF or 1B. LF can't really be an option because Yelich is good and a cost certainty. Bour actually looks like he can add something (but can't be that big bat). So really you need to find a 3B a 1B or move Yelich to CF and find a 3B and a LF but then you're pulling the plug on Ozuna.

[nny]

You can build a roster around some of the guys that you mentioned as complimentary pieces, but that's not a great route to a winning season, which is kind of the overall purpose of sports.

There's nothing wrong with having a lot of complimentary - aka average - pieces on your roster. The problem is having bad players. Avoiding bad players is just as important as having good players. And we fill our roster with bad players.

There's nothing wrong with having a line up with Hech and Realmuto and Prado in it putting up 90 OPS+ each with their defense. The problem is having literally nothing behind the starting 8 when someone gets injured.

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Also, our starters have the second lowest BABIP in the majors yet a below average ERA.

It's easy to hate on the offense, but those that don't produce offensively do produce defensively. But because the rotation suck, it doesn't stand out as much.

[Jay]

-> We need offense. We have a top-3 defensive team, but 7th worst offense. The top 5 issues: Ichiro, Morse, Mathis, Solano, Ozuna

Morse has been replaced with Bour. And while I'm not a believer of him, I mean, he at least doesn't suck ass. And Ozuna has to be better than what he's been.

Ichiro, Mathis, and Solano are mostly an issue with the fact we never have a good bench. It's hard to hate on Ichiro, but he's 8th on the team in PA with a 63 OPS+. And Mathis and Solano...nothing needs to be said about them. If we got average production out of those three, we jump to a top-10 offense.

The problem with this team? This list right here of negative WAR players: link. All of which, except for Morse, are bench players who can't hit AND can't field. This team doesn't build depth and does not build a bench. If those players gave us 0 WAR instead (replacement level results - not average results, replacement level), our position player WAR jumps to 14.8 - or 6th best in all of baseball.

Our problem is not the starters. We have, at worst, average position player starters at all 8 positions. The problem is what's behind them.

So you're saying the Gordon trade royally screwed the team?

[nny]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2015.shtml

Our starting 8 has an OPS+ of 104
The combined bench has an OPS+ of 65

Combine those starters above average offense with elite level defense, and there's nothing wrong with the starting 8.

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So you're saying the Gordon trade royally screwed the team?

Probably more "Haren and both of their salaries"

Really wonder what a deal would have looked like if it was just Gordon, with LAD sending no $$$....

[Jay]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2015.shtml

Our starting 8 has an OPS+ of 104
The combined bench has an OPS+ of 65

Combine those starters above average offense with elite level defense, and there's nothing wrong with the starting 8.

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Probably more "Haren and both of their salaries"

Really wonder what a deal would have looked like if it was just Gordon, with LAD sending no $$$....

I'd probably still have a problem because the FO constantly chases that type of player