Marlins Get Swept by Mets, Lose by a Run

[emkayseven]

Fuck this team so hard

[MiamiHomer]

I've honestly had the weirdest reaction to all of this. I know it sucks that the team is done so poorly but a large part of me is taking joy in knowing this is blowing up in Loria's face since he made this facade of making people think he spent money to put together this team. I'm sort of numb to the Marlins losing right now. Guessing that has a lot to do with how the two years prior worked out.

[HUGG]

I'm really glad it blew up in his face, now we can keep losing for the next 10 years.

[BigGameFish]

Mets already have 10 wins. We need 7 more just to reach that. At our current win percentage, that won't happen for another 30 games. Even if the Mets only go .500 for the next 30 games, we would still be 15 wins behind them in this scenario...

Things need to turn around in a hurry.

[MiamiHomer]

I'm really glad it blew up in his face, now we can keep losing for the next 10 years.

Or he can start spending money.

[HUGG]

Which do you think it'll be?

[marlinsfan24]

They didn't want to spend any money on free agents this past offseason because they "were afraid of getting burnt like they did in 2012." So next offseason they won't make any trades because they are scared of getting burnt in trades. Only minor league signings from now on. Payroll in 2016 will be $10M

---

Fuck Loria.

[MiamiHomer]

Which do you think it'll be?

I think I have a better chance at dating Margot Robbie than Loria changing his ways.

[Jay]

When does the answer that they are poor at evaluating player value come into play?

[dim]

I know the 3-10 record sucks, but I think it's obvious for people who watch the games that it isn't indicative of the type of team this is. There's obvious talent, but the hitters outside of Gordon all got super cold to start the year and the pitching rotation is filled with #4's and #5's without Fernandez/Alvarez. The bullpen is also good but has been used far too often this season for a variety of reasons (Redmond pulling starters with low pitch counts and many guys not being able to get out of the 5th inning). The biggest concern for the next few months is obviously the rotation, mostly because I don't see it being much better than it already is now without Alvarez and Latos being a lot worse than advertised. I think it is also apparent that this team lives and dies by Stanton's bat, and that bat has been pretty awful to start the year. The lack of clutch hitting has been costly, some of Saltalamacchia's F-ups have cost us a game or two, and really there has been just some really sh*t luck.

Moving forward the offense should correct itself, which should make some of those 4 or 5 inning starts with 2/3 ER allowed a tiny bit more bearable, but this is a pretty damn big hole to dig yourself into this early, especially since it looks like the Mets are the real deal this year (I still think the Braves aren't good even if they beat us pretty badly).

- - - - - - - - - -

When does the answer that they are poor at evaluating player value come into play?

It's really just underperformance. Haren has pitched better than expected, Dee better than expected, but that's about it. Hech (if you mix his awful start and hot lately performance)/Cosart/Koehler/Morse have all performance around expectations. Yelich/Ozuna/Prado/Salty/Stanton are all vastly underperforming. That really f-ing hurts when that accounts for our 2-3-5-6-7 in our lineup. The only truly poor evaluation may have been Latos, but that was always a gamble that seemed like it was going to work out great for us but may turn out to have been the Reds front office working us. In retrospect it may not have been the smartest thing to trade away basically all of our pitching prospects and back end starters (Desclafani/Heaney/Eovaldi/German/etc...), but at the time it seemed like a risk that was made for the present of the team. Some of the moves backfired, some of them worked. There's 149 games left and I sure as sh*t am not giving up on what still could be a really promising season.

I do hate all the idiots on the other board calling for Redmond's head. He may not be a smart manager, but it is really stupid that they want to blame all of the team's problems on somebody who doesn't even play.

[Jay]

I know the 3-10 record sucks, but I think it's obvious for people who watch the games that it isn't indicative of the type of team this is. There's obvious talent, but the hitters outside of Gordon all got super cold to start the year and the pitching rotation is filled with #4's and #5's without Fernandez/Alvarez. The bullpen is also good but has been used far too often this season for a variety of reasons (Redmond pulling starters with low pitch counts and many guys not being able to get out of the 5th inning). The biggest concern for the next few months is obviously the rotation, mostly because I don't see it being much better than it already is now without Alvarez and Latos being a lot worse than advertised. I think it is also apparent that this team lives and dies by Stanton's bat, and that bat has been pretty awful to start the year. The lack of clutch hitting has been costly, some of Saltalamacchia's F-ups have cost us a game or two, and really there has been just some really sh*t luck.

Moving forward the offense should correct itself, which should make some of those 4 or 5 inning starts with 2/3 ER allowed a tiny bit more bearable, but this is a pretty damn big hole to dig yourself into this early, especially since it looks like the Mets are the real deal this year (I still think the Braves aren't good even if they beat us pretty badly).

- - - - - - - - - -



It's really just underperformance. Haren has pitched better than expected, Dee better than expected, but that's about it. Hech (if you mix his awful start and hot lately performance)/Cosart/Koehler/Morse have all performance around expectations. Yelich/Ozuna/Prado/Salty/Stanton are all vastly underperforming. That really f-ing hurts when that accounts for our 2-3-5-6-7 in our lineup. The only truly poor evaluation may have been Latos, but that was always a gamble that seemed like it was going to work out great for us but may turn out to have been the Reds front office working us. In retrospect it may not have been the smartest thing to trade away basically all of our pitching prospects and back end starters (Desclafani/Heaney/Eovaldi/German/etc...), but at the time it seemed like a risk that was made for the present of the team. Some of the moves backfired, some of them worked. There's 149 games left and I sure as sh*t am not giving up on what still could be a really promising season.

I do hate all the idiots on the other board calling for Redmond's head. He may not be a smart manager, but it is really stupid that they want to blame all of the team's problems on somebody who doesn't even play.

Redmond is an idiot and it's not really stupid to blame someone who doesn't even play when he directly affects how players are used. Redmond not understanding what a split is or why sacrificing should essentially never be done affects game outcomes.

Dee and Haren are producing right now but they're a real part of the problem. The trade was made because of financial reasons and an obsession with speed. They didn't consider that a player that would provide the same value at the same position as Dee is already sitting in the minors or that Barnes, who was included in the deal, can also play that position to go along with catcher and actually hit the ball out of the infield. Heaney gives you the same probability for a win as Haren does so it's essentially a dead swap for youth with upside vs a guy who claimed he would rather retire than play for the organization. They made the trade because they're blinded by a skill that is overvalued and little impact on winning and destroyed organizational depth to do so.

They went out and got Latos to be a front end starter but traded a major league ready starter to do so. If they could evaluate ability correctly they would have known that Latos is less valuable than DeSclafani as a longterm asset. Don't forget that they gave up a catching prospect who actually walked significantly more than he struck out last year.

The Prado/Phelps deal was the one trade that actually helped the team but they bat Prado forth or fifth because they have this misunderstanding that they need a guy who steals a lot of bases hitting lead off.

Then they don't trade Cishek because they need a proven closer to take $6 mill away from acquiring a player that could have helped the team.

The organization would have the same probability of putting together a successful team if it was run by a handful of 2nd graders.

[dim]

How was Dee for financial reasons? We gave up prospects for him. That just isn't right. Also, it obviously wasn't an obsession with speed if you've watched the games so far and his first half last season. He's a hell of a lot better than what we trotted out there last season and we'd be even worse without him.

I've touted Austin Barnes higher than anybody, but saying he'd provide the same value as Gordon is absolutely ridiculous. Barnes is likely a very good utility player while Dee is an above average starting 2nd baseman.

I'm not sure Heaney and Haren are equals right now. Down the line Heaney could be more valuable, but Heaney struggled hard last year in the majors and Haren is putting up good results right now. Heaney isn't even in the majors right now.

The Latos comment is also off. Disco could easily be a great starter, and he's done great so far, but I'm not certain he's anything more than a #4 starter long term. Also Wallach was in A ball. I like him but lets not use his walk rate and call him the second coming of Scott Hatteberg.

Prado shouldn't be leading off, and again that comment is weird to make since Dee has been awesome thus far.

For the Cishek comment, that $6 million he's making didn't stop us from signing anybody, and trading Cishek would've left us with a hole at closer that would've been filled with Francisco Rodriguez or Jonathan Papelbon for that same price tag. Sure at some point it's likely that Cishek will be traded when he gets too costly, but right now he's at a reasonable cost and should perform well as the year continues. He offers stability at the closer spot that the team lacked for a bunch of years before him.

The second graders comment is obviously dumb and shows just how much you actually know about what it takes to run a front office. Hill and Jennings have done a pretty good job of gathering talent this season given the budgetary constraints as always. A poor start doesn't negate the fact that the offense on paper is immensely improved over last year, and that with Fernandez and Alvarez healthy this rotation would look a hell of a lot better. They wanted Shields but the price tag got too high, and none of the pitchers on the market really were that good. The 3-10 start doesn't take away from what was actually a good offseason.

[thatnewguy]

I do hate all the idiots on the other board calling for Redmond's head. He may not be a smart manager, but it is really stupid that they want to blame all of the team's problems on somebody who doesn't even play.

But seriously though, Redmond sucks as a manager.

[dim]

All I know is the worst manager in baseball almost won the World Series last year, so obviously Redmond is holding us back.

[thatnewguy]

I'm not saying he's holding us back, especially cause a manager ultimately is only worth maybe a win or two per season. But it's just so frustrating to see a team that's struggling and then see that it looks like Redmond isn't doing anything in his power--i.e., strategic decisions--to help. Same shitty line-up game in game out with Prado hitting fourth (trying to replicate Casey McGehee?) with poor decision making in terms of sacrifice bunting, hitting strategy, platoons, splits, pinch hitters, etc.