Marlins Ranked 2nd Worst Scouting Metrics

[lou]

While the thrifty Marlins might have broken convention by shelling out $325-million for Giancarlo Stanton, they're still reluctant to spend big on sabermetrics. After going through five managers and five losing seasons in five years, they are looking to hire, um, interns to get their analytics program off the ground. Baseball America has called Miami "among the game's more scouting-orientated organizations," which is simply code for a non-sabermetric approach. GM Dan Jennings has a scouting background and new skipper Mike Redmond doesn't have an inclination for metrics, having spent most of his catching tenure with the Marlins and Twins, who are also analtyics skeptics.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/stor...ytics-rankings

Ranked bottom 10 in professional sports among the 4 leagues, and second worst team in baseball ahead of only the Phillies.

[emkayseven]

Not surprising in the least

[BigGameFish]

Just win games. I don't care what your winning philosophy is. It's seemed in the past decade that a mix of big spending and "sabermatic" spending or gap-filling is generally what will produce the best results

[Bobbob1313]

They fail pretty basic tests of analytic literacy, which is frustrating.

- They put together a groundball pitching staff! Great! In an era of strikeouts, those guys might be undervalued! But then they put a questionable infield defense behind them.
- They traded for Martin Prado! Great! He's a valuable player! But they sold the famr for Dee Gordon and his 4 walks in 250 at-bats post-ASB.
- They still value speed over OBP at the top of the lineup. They still don't employ many defensive shifts or platoons.

It's not asking them to be the Athletics. But is it too much to ask that they at least acknowledge shit Billy Beane figured out 15 years ago?

[Namaste]

Least surprising thing I've heard this year.


We knew just how awful they were when we got to hear behind the scenes FO chatter on The Franchise back in 2012.

[Cambridge]

Speaking of groundballs (someone above)

I read an article on the Hardball Times about the possible overrating the effects of groundballs. Was rather interesting:

THT

Not surprising on the analytics. Though the positive may be the draft where scouting is still most crucial.

[marlinsfan24]

Not surprising in the least. The way the team speaks about metrics makes this so obvious.

[Erick]

I'm pretty sure that the Marlins couldn't care less about pitchers getting groundballs. It just so happens that the pitchers get a lot of GB's.

I'm pretty sure that they evaluate pitchers from a scouting standpoint of strictly going on stuff. To be fair, they haven't been bad at this. They've overvalued certain guys in recent years through trades who have panned out.

I'm pretty sure that they just like a guy once they see 95 with sink or any type of 95+ though. This is the same team that gave Henry Rodriguez a shot last year.

The only different thing they do is shift their outfielders. I believe it's been said that they like high-velocity pitchers because it's harder to pull the ball against them. That's why Stanton is usually playing in right center when the team is at home. I don't know if there's any truth to that statistically, but it's definitely been mentioned by Rich Waltz several times so it's something the organization believes in.
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For what it's worth, considering the dimensions of the park and the fact that the outfield defense is better, it's surprising that they don't prioritize having more flyball pitchers on the roster.

Not surprising because they probably ignore this, but yeah.

[Bobbob1313]

This is the same team that gave Henry Rodriguez a shot last year.

He has been on three different teams in the last year. I do not think this is a good indictment of the Marlins' organizational priorities.

[HUGG]

When they acquired Cosart, they talked about his power stuff and never mentioned ground balls.

[nny]

Yeah, all the GB guys we've had have been power pitchers. I can't think of a raw GB guy like.

And we've had a good amount of FB pitchers like Nolasco

[xeysz]

Actually there was a post on fangraphs from the GM meetings where Michael Hill said they do prefer groundball pitchers. It's definitely no coincidence. Our FO tries to appeal to casual fans who love high velocity and more groundballs means more opportunities for Hechavarria to make flashy plays
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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunda...e-gm-meetings/

Two things stood out when I talked to Miami Marlins president Michael Hill in Phoenix this week. One was the importance of character when building a roster. The other was seemingly contradictory and had to do with the team’s home ballpark.

Hill brought up character after first citing track records, scouts evaluations, and statistical data.

“We look at if a player is a fit for what we are trying to do, and that’s a holistic statement,” Hill told me. “There’s more that goes into it than just the pitching, fielding and hitting. We’re bringing a personality into our clubhouse and put value in how a particular player may fit the context of our club.”

I wasn’t particularly surprised to hear Hill say that. When I visited the Marlins’ clubhouse this summer – technically, the visiting clubhouse in Atlanta – the vibe was positive. I spoke to several players and all were personable. But I did find it notable that Hill brought up character, so I asked just how much of a factor it is.

“I wouldn’t say it’s paramount, but it is part of our decision-making process,” Hill said. “We’re definitely mindful of it. It’s part of the checklist as we go through possibly acquiring a player. We want to try to make sure he fits who we are and who we’re trying to be.”

Part of who the Marlins are trying to be is a team tailored to their home field. Hill said he “wants to try to acquire players who make contact and can take advantage of those spacious gaps in Marlins Park.” That makes sense, as does his desire to have rangy defenders. When I asked about Adeiny Hechavarria, Hill said “it pays for us to have a Gold Glove candidate shortstop (because) if you look the empirical data of batting average on balls on the ground, it was high for us. We have a fast infield and a lot of ground-ball pitchers.”

Hill went on to say the organization likes “tall, power pitchers who can leverage the ball and work downhill, and get more ground balls because of it. Historically, that’s the type of pitcher we draft and develop, and acquire.”

I asked if there was any contradiction in wanting a high-ground-ball-rate pitching staff in a ballpark with arguably the fastest infield in either league.

“It’s just the nature of where we play,” responded Hill. “If there was a way to maybe grow it a little longer, we’d look at that, but it’s a domed facility. You want to make sure you keep your grass healthy.”

[nny]

Problem is, stats don't agree.

From 2002-2014, the Marlins ranked dead middle (15th) in GB% (43.8%).

Since Hill became GM (2008), they're still 15th (44.3%).

Though to be fair, in his first year as president, they did rank 4th (46.9%).