Spring Training Discussion

[nny]

http://www.statcorner.com/CatcherReport.php and http://www.baseballprospectus.com/so...hp?cid=1667331 are the two with pitching framing stats. Both have him dead last, the first at -24.4 runs and the second at -18.7. Call it -20 and now he's at -0.6 WAR last year.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/stor...-espn-magazine to read a bit on it

[Bobbob1313]

I find the pitch-framing stats to be kind of ridiculous. It seems crazy that the difference between the best and worse pitch-framers could be 4.5 wins. I just have a really hard time wrapping my mind around that.

[nny]

Yeah, I do rather agree with that. Though, the difference between the best and worst fielder (taking into account position) was 4.9 wins. Not counting position and just looking at UZR, it's 4.3 wins.

I don't really have strong feelings towards it one way or the other.

Difference between hitters was 9 wins.

[lou]

Hand likely to remain in Miami
JUPITER, Fla. — Brad Hand is getting the start for the Marlins on Friday night. All indications are it won’t be a showcase outing for the lefty, who has been mentioned in potential trade talks.

The Marlins are leaning towards retaining Hand, largely because of his upside (he’s 25) and the fact they may indeed need the depth, either in the rotation or bullpen.

Hand is in the mix for the fifth starter spot, which appears to be going to Tom Koehler. The Marlins are listening to potential offers for Hand, who is out of options. But they are not eager to trade off any of their surplus pitching, at least not at this point.

We saw why this week.

On Thursday, Miami announced Hand would start at the Astros on Friday at Kissimmee, Fla., in place of Jarred Cosart, who is dealing with a blister to his right middle finger.

Cosart also is the subject of an MLB investigation into his possible link to gambling. But even before the Cosart situation surfaced, the Marlins were hesitant to moving Hand. A number of teams have inquired, including the Rangers.

Miami used 13 different starters in 2014, a franchise most. The rotation became a revolving door after Jose Fernandez was lost for the season due to Tommy John surgery in May. All-Star Henderson Alvarez also spent time on the disabled list.

The organization feels they are nine deep on the starting pitching front, and it will be 10 when Fernandez returns in mid-season.

Bottom line is Hand provides both depth and upside. He also is the lone lefty option still in camp. Add in the fact he has a mid-90s fastball, and he is under club control, puts him on the list for any club looking for young, affordable starting pitching.

http://joefrisaro.mlblogs.com/

Not anything crazy here, but they should definitely keep him as the 2nd lefty and trade McKirahan for whatever A ball arms which could develop. Cishek, Morris, Ramos, Dunn, Crow, Phelps, and Hand are a great pen, with Capps and Dyson as great backups and Fernandez looming to push someone to the pen.

Nine deep in rotation? Alvarez, Latos, Cosart, Haren, Koehler, Hand, Phelps.... Nicolino.... I guess Rienzo? Not much quality to be claiming 9 deep. Maybe 2 deep and a lot of guys who could be 4th SP.

[nny]

Don't forget they view Crow as a starter. That's "nine" lol

[marlinsfan24]

Not anything crazy here, but they should definitely keep him as the 2nd lefty and trade McKirahan for whatever A ball arms which could develop. Cishek, Morris, Ramos, Dunn, Crow, Phelps, and Hand are a great pen, with Capps and Dyson as great backups and Fernandez looming to push someone to the pen.

Nine deep in rotation? Alvarez, Latos, Cosart, Haren, Koehler, Hand, Phelps.... Nicolino.... I guess Rienzo? Not much quality to be claiming 9 deep. Maybe 2 deep and a lot of guys who could be 4th SP.

The 9th might be Jose Urena.
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I'd almost rather trade Hand and keep McKirahan

[Nick]

The Urenator!

[Bobbob1313]

I'd almost rather trade Hand and keep McKirahan

He's got the strangest minor league splits...

vs. RHB: .183/.251/.270 (.240 BABIP), 25.1 K%, 6.3 BB%, 4:1 K:BB ratio
vs. LHB: .302/.369/.410 (.429 BABIP), 28.4 K%, 9.2 BB%, 3:1 K:BB ratio

Higher OPS allowed against RHB than LHB every season.

So, if he's anything, he's probably not a LOOGY. But, if that BABIP against LHP is as flukey as it seems, he could just be a really good reliever.

Without having seen him throw, I've gotta admit I'm intrigued.

[BigGameFish]

Red has gone with the same batting order the past two games (including today's game). This is along the lines of what most of us expected as the regular season order. I assume Red sticks to this:

Dee
Yelich
Stanton
Morse
Prado
Oz
Salty
Hech
P

Thoughts? Makes good sense to me. I like Prado in front of Ozuna in the middle of the order. I would actually prefer to have Salty 8th and Hech 7th unless Saltu hits like he did in '13.

[emkayseven]

Red has gone with the same batting order the past two games (including today's game). This is along the lines of what most of us expected as the regular season order. I assume Red sticks to this:

Dee
Yelich
Stanton
Morse
Prado
Oz
Salty
Hech
P

Thoughts? Makes good sense to me. I like Prado in front of Ozuna in the middle of the order. I would actually prefer to have Salty 8th and Hech 7th unless Saltu hits like he did in '13.

No sir, I don't like it.

Prado:


Ozuna:

[Mainge]

I think I'd prefer to have Yelich leading off and Prado second but whatever. It's fine.

[lou]

Red has gone with the same batting order the past two games (including today's game). This is along the lines of what most of us expected as the regular season order. I assume Red sticks to this:

Dee
Yelich
Stanton
Morse
Prado
Oz
Salty
Hech
P

Thoughts? Makes good sense to me. I like Prado in front of Ozuna in the middle of the order. I would actually prefer to have Salty 8th and Hech 7th unless Saltu hits like he did in '13.

Realistically, I would put Prado 2.

Gordon
Prado
Yelich
Stanton
Morse
Ozuna
Salty
Hech

Fantasy land, I would really do this

RHP

Salty
Yelich
Stanton
Morse
Ozuna
Gordon
Prado
Hech

Hate on Salty all you want, I'm just saying vs RHP, I'm taking the highest OBP and don't care about "clogging the bases" with a slow runner.

2014 vs RHP OBP
Salty - .333, and I think he under achieved
Gordon - .322, and I think he over achieved
Hech - . 301
Prado - .300

LHP

Gordon (2B/SS)
Prado (2B/SS/3B)
Yelich
Stanton
Morse
Baker (2B/3B)
Ozuna
Mathis

As for LHP

Baker - .900+ OPS last two years combined, roughly 250 PA
Prado - .900+ OPS last two years combined, over 325 PA
Gordon - .340 OBP last year, hope with the speed
Ozuna - Career .769, lower in 2014. Hech was actually higher

Hech had a really solid .742 OPS vs LHP last year, but around a .550 in 2013. He is an OK play here, but it's hard to ignore how hard Baker hits them.

[Mainge]

No sir, I don't like it.

Their career OPS' are negligible, except Martin makes more consistent contact. I think that's fine.

I'm not really sure what you're doing there with the batting order stats, unless you think there's a significantly different approach between hitting 5th and 6th.
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Of course, Ozuna is an ascending player and Prado is likely the opposite. So I don't think it's crazy to expect Ozuna to be the better offensive player. And if that's proven true, you definitely flip flop them.

[Bobbob1313]

Hard for me to get too worked up about that potential lineup. I wish they'd embrace platoons more, sure, and I wish Gordon wasn't just going to hit leadoff because speed. But the difference between Prado batting 5th or Ozuna probably isn't going to impact the bottom line at the end of the season.

[Mainge]

We're all very worked up.