Spring Training Discussion

[marlinsfan24]

Very much so.

[emkayseven]

yuuuuuuuuuup

[Bobbob1313]

He would have made so much more sense for where the organization was at this point.

[Big Z]

Salty now 14 Ks in 30 ABs this spring.

[Bobbob1313]

I'm honestly not sure what expectations for Saltalamacchia were at this point.
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He's making $8 million a year and was worth 1.4 WAR last season. They almost certainly don't have a better option available. We're gonna be mad at Jarrod Saltalamacchia for being Jarrod Saltalamacchia?

[Namaste]

You're bobbob'ing

I think people just want the 3.6 WAR Salty that he was the year before he came to us.

It might still happen. We can dream.

[AdamRavs]

You're bobbob'ing

I think people just want the 3.6 WAR Salty that he was the year before he came to us.

It might still happen. We can dream.

And dreams are free!

[BigGameFish]

The only thing worse than Salty is John Buck.

I've said it before, and I noticed it again in spring training this past Sunday - he's so bad at pitch framing and just defense in general. Most shitty offensive catchers at least have that. I really don't like him.

[lou]

I'd venture to say the Marlins have 2 worse starters in the middle infield, so I can't get on him that much. Especially since if he does suck, I think they turn it over to Realmuto in July. No chance another middle infielder rises above those two.

[emkayseven]

Hech is worse, but I do not believe Gordon is worse. At least Gordon has a huge plus plus tool.

[Jay]

Catcher is regarded as the hardest position to fill and I was curious to see the how the position stacked up last season. All the stats looked at came from fangraphs 2014 season of catchers with over 400 plate appearances.

23 players met the conditions
Salty ranked 19th in WAR with 1.4
15 players had a 2.0 WAR or above

Of the top 10 catchers: (WAR range from 2.4-6.2)
8 are still on the team that first promoted them to the majors
7 are still on the team that initially signed or drafted them

Of the catchers in the 11-18 positions: (WAR range 1.5-2.3)
4 are on the team that initially drafted them

Basically this says you have to draft premium catchers.

Since 2000 the Marlins have drafted 5 catchers within the first 3 rounds. We'll assume that the likelihood of making it the majors and being a valuable player is significantly higher for the first 3 rounds than later rounds. And we'll assume the Marlins didn't have any other significant catchers signed (e.g., international players).

The Marlins signed all five catchers drafted in this time period: Blake Anderson (2014 pick 36), Kyle Skipworth (2008 pick 6), Jameson Smith (2007 round 3), Torre Langley (2006 round 3), Brett Hayes (2005 round 2).

Brett Hayes (2005 round 2) made it to the majors with the Marlins but has never been anything more than a backup. He signed a minor league deal with spring training invite for the Indians this year.

Torre Langley (2006 round 3) never made it above AA and hasn't played since 2011.

Jameson Smith (2007 round 3) made it to Jupiter and hasn't played since 2009.

Kyle Skipworth (2008 pick 6) had 4 at bats for the Marlins in 2013. Has an .891 OPS in 23 PA in spring training this year for the Reds as a non-roster invitee.

Blake Anderson (2014 pick 36) had a .422 OPS in 94 PA in the GCL in 2014.

J.T. Realmuto (2010 round 3) was drafted as a SS and converted to a catcher. I don't expect him to be anything above a serviceable catcher meaning ~2 WAR. This is certainly valuable for at least 4 years of service time.

I dont think we'll see good production from the catcher spot for some time.

[Bobbob1313]

You're bobbob'ing

I think people just want the 3.6 WAR Salty that he was the year before he came to us.

It might still happen. We can dream.

A win goes for roughly $7-8 million on the open market. That should be the lens through which he is viewed. He might even be able to beat that if they sit him against every LHP on the schedule, but they'll never do that.

[lou]

It's perpetually sad Buster Posey went one pick before Kyle Skipworth

[nny]

Keep in mind that Salty's WAR does not include pitch framing. If you believe in that, it notches his WAR down a lot.

I'm not really against the contract, though. C is a hard position to fill, and we took a chance on a guy coming off a good year (and solid the two years previous) on the right side of 30.

Hindsight being 20/20, yeah it's too bad we didn't sign Suzuki or Navarro instead. But oh well. Make the best of what you can - only let him play against RHP and hope Realmuto develops within the next year.

[Jay]

I know WAR does not include pitch framing. Is there a metric for that? If there it would be flawed as umpires also put weight into the who's throwing the pitch in their judgement.

I'm probably in the minority of baseball fans but I think balls and strikes need to be calculated by technology rather than called by an umpire. I remember the article about potential changes the new commissioner wanted to employ and shrinking the strike zone was one of them. But this can't be done anyway because there is no standard strike zone. Strike zone is a judgement of an umpire. Pitch framing should have no influence in this game. Strikes and balls can be called objectively with today's technology and in the pros it simply requires the flip of a switch to implement.