Marlins Trade Heaney, Hernandez, Barnes, Hatcher to Dodgers for Gordon, Haren, Rojas

[Bobbob1313]

The most dispiriting part about the trade is the idea that they might think Haren is the "frontline, innings-eating starter" they've spent all offseason talking about...

[xeysz]

The most dispiriting part about the trade is the idea that they might think Haren is the "frontline, innings-eating starter" they've spent all offseason talking about...

Exactly. It just shows this is the same FO it's always been. If they were serious about a "frontline, innings-eating starter," they'd get Shields who is exactly that.

[dim]

Fun fact: Dee Gordon walked four times the entire second half of last season.

And he will be leading off with the goal of getting on base. ...

[MiamiHomer]

Craig Mish @CraigMish
Hearing @Dodgers asked for Justin Nicolino in the deal @Marlins value him over Heaney and dealt Heaney instead.

[thatnewguy]

Because the organization puts themselves in that position. When you are clearly at the losing end of a lopsided trade and it just so happens to work out that's not smart thinking. That's getting lucky. What was the last major trade the Marlins made where it appeared from the outset that they were the winning side? It certainly isn't this one. I'd go far as to say that it was the 2012 Blue Jays one, and since then every move they've made has been meh or bad and the results have been meh or bad, with the occasional Bryan Morris move coming in. You can't seriously tell me that you thought trading a high draft pick for Bryan Morris was smart at the time it was done. Yes, with hindsight it appears great but at the time it wasn't. The Marlins time after time do that. And when you have in your very recent history, with the same people in the FO, the worst trade in the history of the sport then you cannot be given the benefit of the doubt.

There is enough on this team's track record to be skeptical at whether or not they know what they're doing. They always buy high and overpay or don't pay at all, ignoring the smart and easy moves and do questionable things that sometimes work out. That's not a good FO. That's not what Friedman did in Tampa Bay and what he's doing in LA already. That's not Epstein in Chicago. That's a bad FO that occasionally gets lucky.
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See above post for evidence of that.

[BigGameFish]

Smarter than this FO? 100%. Not even close.

You should apply for a position. Maybe we would win more games.

[Bobbob1313]

So, Loria's still cheap and the front office is dumber than ever.

But they signed Stanton!
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You should apply for a position. Maybe we would win more games.

Do you believe sports to be a pure meritocracy?

[thatnewguy]

Like I said, if they traded Stanton they probably would've fucked that up too. Everyone knows that LA and Detroit love to just bend us over.

[BigGameFish]

I hate this trade more and more by the second. And, no, this FO has not earn the benefit of the doubt for anything in the post-Cabrera world. It was the only reason I hoped Stanton wouldn't get traded because that would get fucked up somehow. These trades only are always in a position where they can only be good in hindsight and that's a problem because it's never "Wow, good move Marlins." It's "Oh, I guess Bryan Morris/Jarred Cosart/etc. was a good move." That's the sign of a bad FO that gets lucky, not one with foresight.

Just curious, what FOs in baseball are ones with "foresight" in your opinion?

[sports24/7]

Because the organization puts themselves in that position. When you clearly the losing end of a lopsided trade and it just so happens to work out that's not smart thinking. That's getting lucky. What was the last major trade the Marlins made where it appeared from the outset that they were the winning side? It certainly isn't this one. I'd go far as to say that it was the 2012 Blue Jays one, and since then every move they've made has been meh or bad and the results have been meh or bad, with the occasional Bryan Morris move coming in. You can't seriously tell me that you thought trading a high draft pick for Bryan Morris was smart at the time it was done. Yes, with hindsight it appears great but at the time it wasn't. The Marlins time after time do that. And when you have in your very recent history, with the same people in the FO, the worst trade in the history of the sport then you cannot be given the benefit of the doubt.

There is enough on this team's track record to be skeptical at whether or not they know what they're doing. They always buy high and overpay or don't pay at all, ignoring the smart and easy moves and do questionable things that sometimes work out. That's not a good FO. That's not what Friedman did in Tampa Bay and what he's doing in LA already. That's not Epstein in Chicago. That's a bad FO that occasionally gets lucky.
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See above post for evidence of that.

Obviously the Marlins didn't feel they were losing lopsided deals at the time they made them. They felt they were getting the best of the deal. They were right. How is that lucky, just because other people were wrong?

You have the right to not like any trade on the surface, but if you win the trade, you deserve credit for having a good read on your prospects as well as the players coming in.

The fact of the matter is, this front office the way it is structured right now has won more trades than it has lost. Do they deserve the benefit of the doubt? I don't know, but to give them no credit is pretty ridiculous.

[BigGameFish]

Looks like there are a lot of Dodgers fans who are actually unhappy with this trade. Which is weird. Why?

Because people are never happy

[dim]

I found out Hechavarria had a higher OPS the end last season than Gordon (.648 OPS vs. .688 OPS).

I mean I know Gordon brings more than just hitting (speed speed speed), but the more I think about this trade the more ridiculous it gets.

[BigGameFish]

Exactly. It just shows this is the same FO it's always been. If they were serious about a "frontline, innings-eating starter," they'd get Shields who is exactly that.

The FO is the same as its always been?? Talk about hyperbole. This is a team with 3-4 fire sales, maybe 5-6 winning seasons in its history, and known as a farm system for the major leagues...I'd say actually make trades to benefit the current team and not projected future teams is a HUGE difference. C'mon man.

[dim]

that...that is strange. Does this have something to do with the decrease in velocity from Heaney? Because I remember somebody posting the decrease in velocity wasn't that bad in September and was still low 90s.

If they value Nicolino over Heaney...I honestly have no words. I like Nicolino, and he can make a good #4/5, but Heaney was loved by critics not even a year ago, and is a consensus #2 pitcher potential. It's upsetting when this kind of news gets out and makes you lose faith in the front office more and more each time.

[thatnewguy]

The FO is the same as its always been?? Talk about hyperbole. This is a team with 3-4 fire sales, maybe 5-6 winning seasons in its history, and known as a farm system for the major leagues...I'd say actually make trades to benefit the current team and not projected future teams is a HUGE difference. C'mon man.

Most of these guys in the FO have been here since 2002.
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Makes me wonder at what other teams were willing to give in return for Heaney. I mean that legitimately. We might be overvaluing him because he's a top 20 prospect but it's possible other teams saw that dip in velocity and his poor MLB numbers last season and weren't impressed. I mean, for as much shit as we give this team, I don't think they'd just trade for a fast second baseman if there was a drastically better offer on the table.

Or maybe they saw "cost controlled All-Star" and just came all over their farm system.