Trade Deadline

[HUGG]

I absolutely agree we need to start locking guys up, Daft.



But not relief pitchers. Giving relievers multi-year, high money deals is dumb. I'd never sign any of them.

[Miamarlin21]

And they have Kevin Gregg, who has closer experience

[lou]

Why do we advocate trading our young pitching? You guys are suggesting the same behavior that makes you hate Loria and the organization. Im sick of trading guys just because we are not a playoff team. Is there a rule that you have to trade guys just because you're not going to win the World Series? It's a perpetual losing mentality. "Trade guys because we aren't winning, so we can get younger unproven guys who may contribute in the future to our young team that won't be winning the World Series so we'll need them to fill in for the guys we trade for young guys in the future."
--------------------
CAN WE BUILD A FUCKING TEAM OVER TIME FOR ONCE?!

Casey McGehee is not the guy to be arguing on this one. They should trade him because a .363 BABIP is not sustainable. Even if we want to argue the lack of power is also a fluke, and maybe he is better than his career rates like Mr. Baseball in Japan, that average is still dropping 40-50 points and he's going to be a very pedestrian no-defense .265/.325/.415 hitter with 12-15 HR "upside." If they can move him for a good young player they could control for years, I would argue that is building a team versus having arbitration rights to a very nominal guy for another season.

This is kind of simple in my view, they can do two things:

Keep Cishek, McGehee, Dunn, Jones, and Baker, and have cash to add maybe 1 middle infielder or backend SP next year considering Stanton gets a big raise.

or

Trade all of them, save roughly $20 million, plus have the money to buy that MI/SP and
get 5-7 young players, likely 2-3 pretty good ones considering Cishek and McGehee do have some value, that are club controlled and fit more nicely with the young team growing.

The later is building a team to me.

Especially considering when they trade Stanton, they are going to get 4-5 really good pieces on paper probably on the same playing time curve, which hopefully compliments the 'veteran' core of Fernandez, Heaney, Alvarez, Eovaldi, Yelich, Ozuna, and Moran.

Battered wife syndrome for sure. I do feel bad for them as Fernandez blowing out his arm really set them back a season and a half. I think things would be radically different with him around.

[fauowls44]

Casey McGehee is not the guy to be arguing on this one. They should trade him because a .363 BABIP is not sustainable. Even if we want to argue the lack of power is also a fluke, and maybe he is better than his career rates like Mr. Baseball in Japan, that average is still dropping 40-50 points and he's going to be a very pedestrian no-defense .265/.325/.415 hitter with 12-15 HR "upside." If they can move him for a good young player they could control for years, I would argue that is building a team versus having arbitration rights to a very nominal guy for another season.

This is kind of simple in my view, they can do two things:

Keep Cishek, McGehee, Dunn, Jones, and Baker, and have cash to add maybe 1 middle infielder or backend SP next year considering Stanton gets a big raise.

or

Trade all of them, save roughly $20 million, plus have the money to buy that MI/SP and
get 5-7 young players, likely 2-3 pretty good ones considering Cishek and McGehee do have some value, that are club controlled and fit more nicely with the young team growing.

The later is building a team to me.

Especially considering when they trade Stanton, they are going to get 4-5 really good pieces on paper probably on the same playing time curve, which hopefully compliments the 'veteran' core of Fernandez, Heaney, Alvarez, Eovaldi, Yelich, Ozuna, and Moran.

Battered wife syndrome for sure. I do feel bad for them as Fernandez blowing out his arm really set them back a season and a half. I think things would be radically different with him around.

Your preferred option is exactly what this team has been doing for years (and getting rightly criticized for) and it's a cycle that they really need to break. I just have a hard time believing that what this team needs right now is to get more mid-level prospects for productive MLB players. What they need is to prove to the fan base/players/media that they are trying to put a competitive product on the field. This team is markedly better than last year, even with the crippling Fernandez injury. I don't think they signed the players they did in the offseason with the goal of making the playoffs this year. The goal was to improve over last season. That can still happen. Going from 62 wins to mid 70's is a nice jump. From where the Marlins starting point was, the attitude shouldn't be "well, if we can't make the playoffs, we may as well ship off our tradable parts." There is a real benefit to showing that you are improving and not just constantly swapping MLB players for players that may or may not help you 3 years from now. Just my opinion. Believe me, I get your philosophy on building a team, and I don't necessarily disagree with it...I just don't think it's the correct course to take in this case.

As for McGehee, we clearly see this differently and I know that I'm not going to change your mind. Sure, he isn't a great player, but he does fill a need cheaply for this team. The return you'll get back is not worth losing him, even with he's likely to regress. If he is JUST a .265/.325/.415 at 3rd base, he's still better than just about every available option at his price for next year. If Moran was a year closer, I'd be with you, but he's not, so I'd rather have another year with Casey at 3rd than adding an extra A-ball arm or two to the farm system.

[emkayseven]

In regards to "Your preferred option is exactly what this team has been doing for years" - no it isn't. It's smart baseball.

The team gets criticized for trading stars so as to not pay them, not trading replacement level players before they walk in FA or get paid disproportionately to their talent and production level.

Dunn, Jones, and Baker are all role players. It isn't difficult to find a platoon guy or a left handed reliever nowadays.

Cishek is also a role player. Closers are not as difficult to develop as it seems. Closers with sustained success are, but just because of that doesn't mean you have to overpay for a closer. A team with our supposed payroll restrictions should never be paying big money to relievers. That's why the Heath Bell deal was dumb and derided even before he threw a pitch for this team. Cishek is going to earn lots of money in arbitration, and the difference between him and, say, Ramos, is negligible enough that putting the money saved toward a real 4 starter or a second baseman or a shortstop who could hit is well worth it.

The only point where I disagree is McGehee. Third base is the toughest position to fill in the league and unless you've got an overpay situation I think he's more valuable to us than he is on the trade market. An extension is a dumb idea, but keeping him in his last arb year next year for a couple million is not. Even when he regresses, he's still an everyday third baseman, which in and of itself is a dying breed. There are 19 qualified 3B this season. Last year there were 18. Only 2 of the 19 this year have negative WARs, because replacement 3B are awful. And seeing what the Padres got for Headley - I don't think trading McGehee is worth it. Next year, when/if Moran is ready, then sure. But now, there's no benefit.

But Cishek, Jones, Baker, and Dunn should all be gone.

[HUGG]

I'd keep McGehee too. Really don't see us getting enough for him to be worth it.

[lou]

I think they get criticized for not buying out Stanton and Cabrera, trading Delgado, Hanley, Reyes, and Buerhle (etc.), having the owner dictate FA signings like Buck and Bell, changing managers every 18 months, firing a GM who wasn't a Yes man, and routinely having a bottom 5 payroll, despite being in a pretty good media market and having a brand new public funded stadium. I don't think "blowing out" Cishek/McGehee/spare parts is even a blip on this radar.

I also agree in principle, if the return sucks keep McGehee (Headley making a lot more money so not sure if directly comparable), but just like you said - replacement level 3B suck and McGehee could be a boost to some team needing that extra win. I imagine some team would gamble a "Nicolino" or "Conley" and another A ball RP arm on him, and I can't see why the Marlins wouldn't do that as it is peak value for the dude who is certain to regress and whom they can use that salary for next year to do something. Again, Moran is coming in June if you guys like it or not (but I do think the Marlins could do something like dump Jones now and move McGehee to 1B as they figure out WTF to do as to the other corner so maybe? But that begs the question, they can get a 1B in free agency next year so who cares)
--------------------

Really don't see us getting enough for him to be worth it.

I think we all agree as to this. It all depends on what is out there. I am 100% on board keeping him if the deals suck.

[fauowls44]

In regards to "Your preferred option is exactly what this team has been doing for years" - no it isn't. It's smart baseball.

The team gets criticized for trading stars so as to not pay them, not trading replacement level players before they walk in FA or get paid disproportionately to their talent and production level.

Dunn, Jones, and Baker are all role players. It isn't difficult to find a platoon guy or a left handed reliever nowadays.

Cishek is also a role player. Closers are not as difficult to develop as it seems. Closers with sustained success are, but just because of that doesn't mean you have to overpay for a closer. A team with our supposed payroll restrictions should never be paying big money to relievers. That's why the Heath Bell deal was dumb and derided even before he threw a pitch for this team. Cishek is going to earn lots of money in arbitration, and the difference between him and, say, Ramos, is negligible enough that putting the money saved toward a real 4 starter or a second baseman or a shortstop who could hit is well worth it.

The only point where I disagree is McGehee. Third base is the toughest position to fill in the league and unless you've got an overpay situation I think he's more valuable to us than he is on the trade market. An extension is a dumb idea, but keeping him in his last arb year next year for a couple million is not. Even when he regresses, he's still an everyday third baseman, which in and of itself is a dying breed. There are 19 qualified 3B this season. Last year there were 18. Only 2 of the 19 this year have negative WARs, because replacement 3B are awful. And seeing what the Padres got for Headley - I don't think trading McGehee is worth it. Next year, when/if Moran is ready, then sure. But now, there's no benefit.

But Cishek, Jones, Baker, and Dunn should all be gone.

To be clear, I am mainly just talking about Cishek and McGehee here. I don't care about trading Dunn, Baker, or Jones.

[Bobbob1313]

They're 8.5 games back of first place and 7.5 games back of the 2nd wild card. They are in 5th place for the second wild card. They're out of it.

Admitting this doesn't mean you're a "battered wife," which is a pretty horrid way of describing being a fan of a sports team thing.

[Nick]

Trade Cishek if the market is right and we can get a good return. Not because we can't pay him next year.

Trade McGehee if you're blown away with an offer. He's the perfect stop gap to Moran hopefully and he's cheap.

Role players like Jones and Baker I could go either way, but I'm guessing they may have more value to us than what we can get in return, and again they're not that expensive to keep around.

[fauowls44]

They're 8.5 games back of first place and 7.5 games back of the 2nd wild card. They are in 5th place for the second wild card. They're out of it.

Admitting this doesn't mean you're a "battered wife," which is a pretty horrid way of describing being a fan of a sports team thing.

I'm fine with admitting they won't make the playoffs. I just don't agree with the notion that just because you won't make the playoffs, you write off staying competitive over the last 60 games and trade off useful parts. More specifically, you don't need to sell off useful players under team control that could help them push for a playoff spot next year.
--------------------

Trade Cishek if the market is right and we can get a good return. Not because we can't pay him next year.

Trade McGehee if you're blown away with an offer. He's the perfect stop gap to Moran hopefully and he's cheap.

Role players like Jones and Baker I could go either way, but I'm guessing they may have more value to us than what we can get in return, and again they're not that expensive to keep around.

Yes...this.

Sure, you can make a valid case for trading Cishek and/or McGehee, or anyone else if the offer is right. But for what we could realistically expect back for either, a trade would be fairly pointless, other than to save Loria some money.

[lou]

Sure, you can make a valid case for trading Cishek and/or McGehee, or anyone else if the offer is right. But for what we could realistically expect back for either, a trade would be fairly pointless, other than to save Loria some money.

As to Cishek, I think they would get a very, very, good return so disagree on him. McGehee would be a guy who would rank top 8-14 in the system more than likely. Noting, Marlins do not have a strong system. I can go both ways if you think that is worth it or not, but I'd save the money (see below) and take the prospect.

Also, can I spin the later positively and say, open up their limited payroll to give Alvarez a 4-5 year deal and buyout Yelich for 5-6?

No? ok....

[Todd]

You can suggest it all you want. Loria will ignore it and go swim in his coin vault Scrooge McDuck style.

[lou]

Maybe we all misunderstood Samson and the season was going to end in a pile of money for Loria

[HUGG]

You can suggest it all you want. Loria will ignore it and go swim in his coin vault Scrooge McDuck style.

if that really happened, I'd forgive him for everything



That shit would be hilarious