Trade Deadline

[HUGG]

We're buyers now, boys!

#HuntForOrangeOctober

[lou]

I get what you are saying. I just think it something that sort of sounds better in theory. Tell me where you are finding someone at 3rd that would be an upgrade on McGehee at the $3.5ish million price point. If there's someone out there, then I'd be all for it, but this is the list of free agent 3rd basemen:

Yuniesky Betancourt (33)
Alberto Callaspo (32)
Eric Chavez (37)
Jack Hannahan (35) – $4MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Chase Headley (31)
Donnie Murphy (32)
Nick Punto (37) – $2.75MM club/vesting option with a $250k buyout
Aramis Ramirez (37) – mutual option
Hanley Ramirez (31)
Pablo Sandoval (28)
Ty Wigginton (37)
Kevin Youkilis (36)

In general, I actually agree with your logic...I just don't agree with trading McGehee, at least for what he would likely bring back in return. I think to build a long-term winner, you need to have some guys like him. You can't continue to flip guys for mid-tier prospects. There's a benefit for this organization to not tank the rest of the year. They have to create a better culture and try to build a fan base. Constantly trading productive players doesn't do that, especially when the hope is he may bring back a potential #4 in a few years.

I agree that list sucks, but I'm sure there are other opportunities with 2B/SS who can cover 3B and the nominal trade market (also would McGehee have even been on those lists last year being in Japan?) where they could do something. As well, this is a 3 month thing. You know they want Moran up July 1st next year. I'm not saying that is good or bad, I'm just saying he will be aggressively moved up.

I agree, somewhat, in a benefit to not tanking, but I con't think trading Cishek, Dunn, McGehee, Jones, and Baker does that at all. The bullpen would take a hit, but those hitters are basically replacement level across the board (assuming a BABIP regression with McGehee). Not much is going to change there, and opening up time for Dietrich, Bour, Jensen, etc. could only help decision making for next year.

As for developing a culture, that's going to change when they start buying out their young stars, keeping major free agent signings and not dishing them after a year like Reyes and Delgado, and raising payroll/using international money/not drafting under slot/Loria has -0- say in roster. I don't think McGehee matters at all. Cishek a little, but that's understandable as we're all going to like whatever they get for him. Likewise, when they trade/not resign Stanton, any goodwill will be gone and they are back at 0 confidence so who cares (because they'll then not buy out Fernandez, Yelich, and Alvarez and the cycle continues). Hate to be a downer, but that's just what is going to happen until that clown sells the team.

So sorry, long answer I know, but I cannot see how McGehee is the line in the sand of how they should act as an organization. This is a guy having a BABIP infused year and getting lucky with tons of RBI on groundouts (see last night) and if he can bring some good young prospects into the organization that have a chance of being with the club for years, you do it. I'm not saying trade him for whatever they can get, really I'm not opposed to a $3.5 tender next year as he will be useful no matter what his role is, but I feel there is greater value getting young players and using that cash not being spent to buy another veteran type guy to help out. It's just more bang for your buck. I firmly believe it is better to get rid of players to early than to late. The regression is coming.

[fauowls44]

I agree that list sucks, but I'm sure there are other opportunities with 2B/SS who can cover 3B and the nominal trade market (also would McGehee have even been on those lists last year being in Japan?) where they could do something. As well, this is a 3 month thing. You know they want Moran up July 1st next year. I'm not saying that is good or bad, I'm just saying he will be aggressively moved up.

I agree, somewhat, in a benefit to not tanking, but I con't think trading Cishek, Dunn, McGehee, Jones, and Baker does that at all. The bullpen would take a hit, but those hitters are basically replacement level across the board (assuming a BABIP regression with McGehee). Not much is going to change there, and opening up time for Dietrich, Bour, Jensen, etc. could only help decision making for next year.

As for developing a culture, that's going to change when they start buying out their young stars, keeping major free agent signings and not dishing them after a year like Reyes and Delgado, and raising payroll/using international money/not drafting under slot/Loria has -0- say in roster. I don't think McGehee matters at all. Cishek a little, but that's understandable as we're all going to like whatever they get for him. Likewise, when they trade/not resign Stanton, any goodwill will be gone and they are back at 0 confidence so who cares (because they'll then not buy out Fernandez, Yelich, and Alvarez and the cycle continues). Hate to be a downer, but that's just what is going to happen until that clown sells the team.

So sorry, long answer I know, but I cannot see how McGehee is the line in the sand of how they should act as an organization. This is a guy having a BABIP infused year and getting lucky with tons of RBI on groundouts (see last night) and if he can bring some good young prospects into the organization that have a chance of being with the club for years, you do it. I'm not saying trade him for whatever they can get, really I'm not opposed to a $3.5 tender next year as he will be useful no matter what his role is, but I feel there is greater value getting young players and using that cash not being spent to buy another veteran type guy to help out. It's just more bang for your buck. I firmly believe it is better to get rid of players to early than to late. The regression is coming.

I'm not saying that McGehee is the line in the sand and sure, he's likely to regress. The point is they have him, he's cheap, and he's productive (and will likely continue to be more productive than most alternatives, even with regression). Why open up the hole at 3rd base for next season if it isn't necessary to do so...and I just don't think what he'd bring back in a trade would be enough to do that.

I look at McGehee as basically our version of Chris Johnson. When the Braves acquired him, he was going to, at most, platoon at 3rd for them and then ended up winning the job. He had a career year last year that he's unlikely to repeat. Now, he's having a down year this year, but that position is so hard to fill, I don't think the Braves regret the extension they gave him.

[AdamRavs]

I'm not saying that McGehee is the line in the sand and sure, he's likely to regress. The point is they have him, he's cheap, and he's productive (and will likely continue to be more productive than most alternatives, even with regression). Why open up the hole at 3rd base for next season if it isn't necessary to do so...and I just don't think what he'd bring back in a trade would be enough to do that.

I look at McGehee as basically our version of Chris Johnson. When the Braves acquired him, he was going to, at most, platoon at 3rd for them and then ended up winning the job. He had a career year last year that he's unlikely to repeat. Now, he's having a down year this year, but that position is so hard to fill, I don't think the Braves regret the extension they gave him.

I like McGehee as kinda like a bench player can play 1st and 3rd. How ever when he regresses it really will be black hole at 3rd. He doesn't have any range at 3rd if it is hit right at him he will make the play. How ever balls up the line or in the hole its by him for a hit. Also we need more power out of that position. But like Lou said maybe there is a conversion out there from 2nd to 3rd and bring Moran up middle to late next yr.

[fauowls44]

Why are we just assuming that that McGehee will regress from his current productive form to a Greg Dobbs-type or Polanco-level uselessness? He was good for the Brewers in 2009-2010...worse in 2011, terrible in 2012, had a great year in Japan in 2013, and has been very good here this season. He's likely to regress, sure, but I think the level of that regression is being a little exaggerated here.

[Big Z]

Can someone with access to ESPN insider post this article on here:

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/

[fauowls44]

He suggests trading Cishek to the Tigers (for 2b prospect Devon Travis)...

No thanks. No more trades with the Tigers!

[sports24/7]

Can someone with access to ESPN insider post this article on here:

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/the-gms-office/

Here's the Marlins part.

3. Miami Marlins: In between, but they should be sellers

Needs: Second base and starting pitching.

Who they could sell: Steve Cishek, RP.

What to expect: The Marlins could go either way at the deadline. If they play well in the next week, they're more likely to buy than sell. However, the Nationals and Braves both have better teams than the Marlins (especially following Jose Fernandez' season-ending injury). Thus, if the Marlins get a chance to help themselves for the future, they should do it, because this could be a team to be reckoned with over the next couple years.

Trade I'd like to see happen: Cishek to the Detroit Tigers in exchange for second base prospect Devon Travis. Cishek would solve the Tigers' bullpen issues, while Travis would solve the Marlins' long-term need at second base. Travis can really hit and has above-average speed.

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On the subject of extending McGehee, I don't get this board sometimes. People can't get on their knees fast enough to blow a guy like Derek Dietrich, and flip out when he's sent down, yet giving McGehee, who has been one of the Marlins best players, a modest contract is seen as a bad move. That makes no sense to me.

[tjfla]

Aren't you suppose to know the answer to that question? Aren't you a MLB insider?

Well the offer we got from NYY was Solarte and a low level pitcher to which we responded NO and then they decided if that was the market that they will just extend him.

From what I heard is that teams like him but arent offering anything that we already don't have in the system

The problem with the Fish is they have no direction. This Jim Johnson rumor is just the latest thing-they win 3 games and go from sellers to buyers. Jim Johnson is crap and is a FA next year. Adam Conley has been terrible as a SP but every scout/FO guy saw him as a Mike Dunn RP. There is NO reason to make the trade
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From Frisaro(Stuff I said last week)

McGehee, signed for $1.1 million, has one more season of arbitration eligibility. So the Marlins can retain him in 2015, at a sizeable raise. Miami also is open to offering the third baseman an extension for a few more seasons.
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Don't be suprised if there is a 3 team deal with Detroit,Boston,Miami if we become sellers. It has been talked about with Boston unsure if they wanna resign a 40 yr old Closer(they want a younger guy)

Detroit likes Uehara and Boston likes Cishek and Miami likes Travis as well as some of Boston's arms

[Big Z]

I know we can get a good return for Cishek, but finding a good closer can be so difficult that I think I rather keep him as part of our future.

I don't think we should sell. I think we should add on and get ready for next year. This team had a terrible stretch and dropped below .500 before the AS break. If they're able to gain momentum, it can go either way.

If we are 5-6 games behind in the WC race we should buy. If we can add a stable 2B and a SP, it could make a big difference in the race. One of the WC teams will likely come out of the NL East, meaning that we can gain ground quick if we are able to beat them. Solano/Valdespin/Turner/Hand are likely not going to be our answer at 2B or our rotation, respectively.

[Erick]

I know we can get a good return for Cishek, but finding a good closer can be so difficult that I think I rather keep him as part of our future.

It's actually not that difficult.

I just hope we get good value because losing a guy like Cishek hurts the depth of a bullpen. I'm pretty sure there is someone already in the organization (probably more than one) who can handle the 9th without embarrassing himself though.

[Big Z]

But you want that guy that's going to come out and be as automatic as possible. We don't need to be losing games expirementing unless we are completely out of it.

If it's not difficult to find a closer, then why is their such high demand for them? Teams are overpaying for a guy that pitches 1 inning.

[fauowls44]

Unless there is an unbelievable offer, I'd also rather just keep Cishek as well. If we hold onto him for another season, is the return for him next year going to be appreciably worse than it would be now? I seriously doubt it. IMO, selling off quality pieces when the team is around .500 with at least an outside chance at making a run sends the wrong message to everyone.

[Bobbob1313]

But you want that guy that's going to come out and be as automatic as possible. We don't need to be losing games experimenting unless we are completely out of it.

Should I tell him, or...

[tjfla]

Should I tell him, or...

Only people who don't know the truth are casual fans and Loria,which is why Jim Johnson's name is out there.