Dunn is Worse Than the Worst; Nationals Double Up Marlins 6-3

[Erick]

lol. Such mature. So grown. Wowe.
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Dude, you bitch about baseball on the internet. Don't try swinging your maturity dick around now, after all these years. It's a bad look.
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Anyways.

The bullpen isn't this bad. Mike Dunn is probably better than useless, and A.J. Ramos is better than Carlos Marmol.

No one said that the bullpen is this bad.

[Bobbob1313]

No one said that the bullpen was this bad.

OK.

But your response to the bullpen being this bad was:

Our bullpen is bad.

So, you clearly think this is at least somewhat representative of their abilities, since they were much better than this last season and I don't recall you expressing the opinion that they were bad before this two-week stretch.

[Erick]

Can't our bullpen be bad and, at the same time, not be this bad? Our bullpen last year was middle of the pack in terms of talent level, and it's arguably worse this year depending on what you think about Carlos Marmol.

There's really only one arm in the bullpen that you can consistently trust in high-leverage situations and it's the closer who we can't get to.

[Beef]

OK.

Jayson Werth has 3 HR, 10 RBI vs. Miami and one RBI vs. everyone else this season.

RBI is kind of a misleading stat
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I don't really understand your "OK" comments tonight. If you look at Dunn's career leverage stats, they're pretty awful. His ERA #'s are a bit misleading and he's really not that good. Relievers who walk a lot of guys and give up a lot of flyballs tend to have their fair share of bad outings and Dunn has been no different.

As for Jennings, he gave up the game-winning HR the other night in Philadelphia so that definitely counts as one.

Bobbob thingd and you responded seriously.

[Bobbob1313]

Our bullpen last year was middle of the pack in terms of talent level

I don't agree with this, but I have no idea how it could be proven.

They were 4th in FIP and 11th in ERA while pitching a higher-than-average number of innings, so I'm not sure why they were middle-of-the-pack in talent level, though I don't know how else one could go about disproving that, I guess.
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They have a lot of guys who throw hard, and a lot of guys waiting in the minors who can also throw hard. So even if the guys who are here suck (and I don't really think any of them actually suck, beyond maybe Marmol), they can probably call someone up really quickly who won't suck.

But I definitely remember us all loving Ramos like 6 days ago.

[Erick]

I don't agree with this, but I have no idea how it could be proven.

They were 4th in FIP and 11th in ERA while pitching a higher-than-average number of innings, so I'm not sure why they were middle-of-the-pack in talent level, though I don't know how else one could go about disproving that, I guess.

Stats like xFIP and SIERA are probably better indicators of future performance than FIP/ERA.

The bullpen FIP was that great because of a 6.5 HR/FB% (lowest in the league). That number is probably not sustainable long-term.

[Beef]

I don't agree with this, but I have no idea how it could be proven.

They were 4th in FIP and 11th in ERA while pitching a higher-than-average number of innings, so I'm not sure why they were middle-of-the-pack in talent level, though I don't know how else one could go about disproving that, I guess.
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They have a lot of guys who throw hard, and a lot of guys waiting in the minors who can also throw hard. So even if the guys who are here suck (and I don't really think any of them actually suck, beyond maybe Marmol), they can probably call someone up really quickly who won't suck.

But I definitely remember us all loving Ramos like 6 days ago.

I never liked Ramos. Use the advanced search function.

[Bobbob1313]

Well, Cishek and Dunn both have multiple seasons with HR/FB below that number. And that number was 8.4% in 2012, so there's at least some reason to think, due to the talent in the pen as well as the park, they can at least sustain a lower-than average number there.
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Also, yes they had the lower-than-expected HR/FB rate.

they also had the 2nd-lowest LD% and 5th-highest GB%, so they were inducing weak contact more often than average.

Just cherry-picking HR/FB rate is a weensy bit disingenuous, right?
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It is entirely possible the bullpen had average talent level, because SIERA. I'm just not going to take that as gospel, and I'm not gonna overreact to a couple of bad weeks.
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I mostly think it's weird to just now go, "The bullpen is bad!" and expect people not to think you're reacting to the few bad games.

[Mainge]

Things got serious around here

[HUGG]

I'm still mad Buster Olney lied to me about Jose's earned runs on twitter.

[dim]

I'm just gonna throw out my opinion here and say our bullpen isn't that bad. I think Redmond needs to use the guys he has better and the guys who have underperformed thus far simply need to improve. As a whole I still think it's a decent 'pen.

This season's been weird so far. If I told you that our offense would actually be competent to start the year, you'd think we'd be in pretty good shape our first 15 or so games. I didn't think our starting pitching and our 'pen would be what has cost us games this year (oh, and that manager we have who does dumb things).

I said before the year we were a 72 to 76 win team. I'm sticking with that. We aren't good enough to beat the good teams, but we are decent enough to beat up on the bad ones (Phillies series be damned).4

I'll stay out of the major arguments here. Just wanted to say I think this team can easily improve.

I also still love Ramos. He should always be our 8th inning guy. I get really upset when I see Marmol or Dunn out on the mound late in close games. Anybody else is fine, but not them.

[AdamRavs]

Redmond made one critical error tonight and that was not sending Yelich with Ozuna up and Stanton on deck.

Salty is is kinda the one that pissed the game away. Not taking the sure out on the bunt. Dropping the foul ball (that one wasn't a big deal). Werth doesn't come up if Salty doesn't make the error.

[emkayseven]

It's hard for me to blame Redmond because as little as I think managers have to do with the game, I think Marlins managers have even less. It's ridiculous that Furcal is supposedly going to start with how well Dietrich has been playing, but I highly doubt it's Red's call, so it's hard for me to judge him.

[Namaste]

#weensy