2013 Trade Deadline Talk

[Mainge]

We kept Hanley, JJ, and Nolasco for a while.
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And Anibal, I think.

[Nick]

Look at Hanley's contract and when we traded him, and to a lesser extent JJ.

[marlinsfan24]

Signing Stanton long-term would definitely be a step in the right direction, but how many times have we seen them sign a player to a long-term contract, just to deal them away after a year or two? (Hint: almost every time)

They'd probably backload the fuck out of it, like they always do, then trade him when he's due the big bucks.

Even if they did that for a couple of seasons, it may open the free agent market for the team with Stanton on board.

[tjfla]

If Stanton resigns, I have no problem with the Fish turning such a deal down, but if he doesn't, good chance the Pirates will offer something similar if they wanted him that badly the first time.

Ya if he says No then gotta think Pittsburgh would offer whatever deal they already offered.

If they did offer that I have no clue how we could turn it down if Stanton rejects an extension

Fernandez
Cole
Heaney
Turner
Taillon

OF-Yelich,Marisnick,Ozuna,Marte

I would try to ask for Hanson instead of Allie and put him at 2B,if that happens then

1B-LoMo
2B-Hanson
SS-Hech
3B-Dietrich?

[Bobbob1313]

Look at Hanley's contract and when we traded him, and to a lesser extent JJ.

They signed Hanley in May '08.

They signed Josh Johnson in January, '10.

So I'm not sure how JJ is to a lesser extent. I think you're confused.

But yeah, they kept Hanley for four seasons and JJ for three.

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I hate this thing where I end up defending the front office only because they clear the insanely low bars people set up...

[lou]

I still think I wouldn't.

I think a team probably needs one star offensive player to build around. I don't think any of Yelich, Marisnick, Ozuna or Marte turns into that. And I don't think any of their infielders do either. And I don't think Eovaldi and Alvarez net a star either.

I think you would have to roll with Fernandez, Cole, Taillon, Heaney, and Turner even if Stanton is awesome and a cornerstone player. You could buy out all 5 of those SP for 6 years for the amount of money you are just paying Stanton on that hypothetical 8 year deal. Think about that. That blows my mind. Your rotation for 6 years moving forward is all of top 40 prospects in baseball last 2 years, and you have some pretty solid injury replacements in Nicolino, Koehler as your long man, and maybe Flynn/Urena/etc in high minors. The bullpen wouldn't miss a step either as they have reliever arms.

Conservatively, I agree with your offense theory above. They would need a star eventually. If we are judging what they should have, I think this is fair

Above average - Yelich
Average - Moran, Morrison, Marte, Marisnick
Roster filler - Hechavarria, Dietrich, Solano, Brantly/Realmuto

You also have a top 5 and top 35-40 pick in 2014 draft for two college bats, Eovaldi and Alvarez to trade for bats unless you make them relievers, and absolutely no payroll issues moving forward with entire rotation locked up for 6 seasons and a basically club controlled bullpen. They can buy a star bat, which is a better investment anyways.

I would run to do that alleged Pirates deal and buy out the entire rotation Matt Moore style.

[Bobbob1313]

Yeah, but they definitely wouldn't buy out five starting pitchers, so that's almost certainly a moot point.

[Nick]

They signed Hanley in May '08.

They signed Josh Johnson in January, '10.

So I'm not sure how JJ is to a lesser extent. I think you're confused.

But yeah, they kept Hanley for four seasons and JJ for three.

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I hate this thing where I end up defending the front office only because they clear the insanely low bars people set up...

I wasn't referring to length of their contracts. I was more referring to how the 2 players were paid an average salary during the years we were paying them, of 8.125 million, and during the remaining years of their contracts after they were traded they were due an average of $15 million+ a year. I mean financially it makes sense, but really neuters the value of the player when having to deal them.

[lou]

Yeah, but they definitely wouldn't buy out five starting pitchers, so that's almost certainly a moot point.

All of it is a moot point as its hypothetical, but if you want them to reinvest that $140 they are allegedly going to offer Stanton if they trade him, if they could buy their entire rotation for the same price for 6 seasons, and the worst case scenario is Nicolino comes in for someone who is hurt at some point, seriously wow? Those 5 cost less than just Kershaw for 6 seasons.

I am building with top end SP end of the day no matter how good Stanton is. He plays the easiest position to find someone - corner OF. I want Price, Moore, Shields, Garza, and Hellickson locked up for 6 seasons and go buy Longoria and Zobrist off the street basically.

I hope that Pirates deal isn't true. I think they blew it big time if they could get Cole and Taillon.

[Bobbob1313]

I wasn't referring to length of their contracts. I was more referring to how the 2 players were paid an average salary during the years we were paying them, of 8.125 million, and during the remaining years of their contracts after they were traded they were due an average of $15 million+ a year. I mean financially it makes sense, but really neuters the value of the player when having to deal them.

That's different than your initial point, but I get it now.
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All of it is a moot point as its hypothetical, but if you want them to reinvest that $140 they are allegedly going to offer Stanton if they trade him, if they could buy their entire rotation for the same price for 6 seasons, and the worst case scenario is Nicolino comes in for someone who is hurt at some point, seriously wow? Those 5 cost less than just Kershaw for 6 seasons.

I am building with top end SP end of the day no matter how good Stanton is. He plays the easiest position to find someone - corner OF. I want Price, Moore, Shields, Garza, and Hellickson locked up for 6 seasons and go buy Longoria and Zobrist off the street basically.

I hope that Pirates deal isn't true. I think they blew it big time if they could get Cole and Taillon.

We can agree that some hypotheticals are based more in reality than others, right?

Offering Stanton 8/140 is far more realistic than expecting a team that seems to have a philosophical opposition to buying out young players to buy out five young pitchers at the same time. One is relatively unlikely. The other is unlikely to an extreme degree.

[Miamarlin21]

Gotta think Stanton's walk rate is up this year in part because teams were pitching around him because they weren't scared to face Placido Polanco.

Also, Allie is now a position player. .238/.348/.364 in 151 High-A at-bats. (.324/.414./.607 in 244 Low-A At-bats with 17 bombs)

[Nick]

That's different than your initial point, but I get it now.
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We can agree that some hypotheticals are based more in reality than others, right?

Offering Stanton 8/140 is far more realistic than expecting a team that seems to have a philosophical opposition to buying out young players to buy out five young pitchers at the same time. One is relatively unlikely. The other is unlikely to an extreme degree.

I mean an argument could be made that it'd still be worth it, but in my mind eight year contract with this club, really means a 3 or 4 year contract, with a much diminished return when we eventually deal him.

[Bobbob1313]

I mean an argument could be made that it'd still be worth it, but in my mind eight year contract with this club, really means a 3 or 4 year contract, with a much diminished return when we eventually deal him.

Kind of.

That "much diminished return" also has to include the 3-4 years of value that player provided.

[Nick]

I agree.

[lou]

That's different than your initial point, but I get it now.
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We can agree that some hypotheticals are based more in reality than others, right?

Offering Stanton 8/140 is far more realistic than expecting a team that seems to have a philosophical opposition to buying out young players to buy out five young pitchers at the same time. One is relatively unlikely. The other is unlikely to an extreme degree.

I'm just saying, if that deal with the Pirates was real, they could feasibly have their entire SP staff of 5 huge huge SP prospects for at least 6 seasons be the same price as signing Stanton for 8. It really wouldn't matter when they buy them out as long as they would do it before a certain guy reached 2 years of club control. It's not a competition of which hypothetical is more extreme, this is just musing on deals. I'm more concerned with the acquisition and what options they would have moving forward, and having an entire pitching staff set for years and years is a very attractive option.

They really blew it if the deal is real. The more I think about it, totally crazy. I like Stanton and Cishek a lot and wouldn't be opposed to keeping them both awhile, but getting two super premium SP with 6 years of service time would be all sorts of wow. And you get Marte who isn't a chump and would be real nice with Yelich/Marisnick out there. They could go all college bats 2014-2015 drafts in the early rounds, trade out Eovaldi and Alvarez for more hitters, and use free agency money (since nothing is on the books) for more hitters. That would be an excellent position to be in. That is way better than paying Stanton, Cishek, having Eovaldi/Alvarez in rotation, and drafting a pitcher in 2014.