Henderson Alvarez, SP

[Bobbob1313]

It was vague, but I was indeed agreeing with ya. I think what MK7 is doing can be said about a lot of sports organization without actually looking into specifics. It's also why I find it fascinating how the Suns staff has gotten this reputation because one would assume all sporting organizations should have a staff on par with that.

I've read a little bit on them that seems to indicate that they are far more proactive than most teams in the NBA, but there's not a lot of concrete information about what they do.

I'm not denying there are teams that are good and teams that are bad at helping players get and stay healthy. I just don't think the anecdotal evidence supports the idea that the Marlins are so much worse than would be expected.

[emkayseven]

Sure it happens with every organization in every organized sport. I pretty firmly believe that it happens with ours much more often. I asked Maury Brown if there would be any way I could research it, or anywhere that compiles data like that, and he said he didn't know. If anyone figures it out, I'll research it to prove my point.

Yes, I think our strength and conditioning are shitty from the top down.

I think our handling of players' injuries is piss poor. Logan Morrison played through a knee injury for half of last season before the team shut him down. And when they did, they prescribed rest and rehab, as if that would help a injury that had been around since the previous offseason (he had his knee scoped in DECEMBER of 2011. AND HE'S STILL COMING BACK FROM THE INJURY.)

Chris Coghlan injured himself throwing a pie in someone's face and it took him 2 years to work back to where he could "play baseball" (I use that term loosely) at a high level again.

How many Giancarlo injuries have we seen take longer than expected?

Alvarez and Eovaldi had mysterious injuries on the last day of spring training that have now turned into 60 day DL stints even though no one had heard of them or seen any issues before.

Hanley's leg injury and subsequent back injury in 2011.

JJ was put on the 15 day DL as a precaution in 2011, then ended up on the 60 day DL with inflammation and then never came back.

To answer your condescending-as-fuck question, I follow every team. I listen to MLB Network Radio all day at work, I've seen more Rays, Red Sox, Cubs, and Pirates games than Marlins games this year. I follow the Marlins closest online, but I'm pretty in tune to what goes on elsewhere. Players get injured and injuries blow up, but I really do believe that our injuries go from minor to major way more often than what happens with other teams.

[Miamarlin21]

Speaking of JJ, he went on the DL and was sent to Florida to get checked out.

[Namaste]

This is going to be an awesome e-battle that ends with bobbob thinking MK7 is an idiot and his opinion unchanged and MK7 thinking bobbob is an idiot and his opinion unchanged.

It's going to be pretty sweet to watch it unfold, though!

[emkayseven]

No, my grandpa told me a long time ago not to fight battles you can't win

which is why I "disappear" from threads, because on this website as soon as you try to state a viewpoint opposite the general consensus you're derided as an idiot.

[Bobbob1313]

To answer your condescending-as-fuck question, I follow every team. I listen to MLB Network Radio all day at work, I've seen more Rays, Red Sox, Cubs, and Pirates games than Marlins games this year. I follow the Marlins closest online, but I'm pretty in tune to what goes on elsewhere. Players get injured and injuries blow up, but I really do believe that our injuries go from minor to major way more often than what happens with other teams.

I would imagine MLB Network Radio does not report on every new detail for every injured player, but maybe I am wrong.

I think you are falling prey to an overabundance of information with the Marlins, relative to other teams. With other teams, you probably only hear the big injury announcements. "So and so will be out 4-6 weeks with a knee injury." "So and so is back." Whereas with the Marlins, you obsessively read every single detail about the team, and thus know each and every new detail as it comes available. I think that's natural, but I also think it makes your viewpoint skewed severely.

Here's Will Carroll ("The Injury Expert") in SI before 2012:

The Marlins bounced hard off a No. 7 ranking in 2010, but that's nothing new. This team and medical staff have long had a stat line that looks like a roller coaster. There were a lot of lows, which is why the wins were down and there are a lot of new faces. It's the same medical staff, and two of the biggest injury cases are back as well.

They were ranked the 7th-best medical staff in 2010 and 22nd in 2011.

Also: 2012 Rank: 8th of 30 teams in DL days and dollars lost

Here he is in 2010:

The Marlins don't spend much on players, so they can't lose much. In relative terms, they always look good on the dollars, so injury cost is a metric almost built for them. There, they're pretty darn good as well. Days is where they really shine, if by shine you mean "the lower part of mid-pack." They're never bad, but they're never great. Like most of their seasons, they're good enough to be good enough, but they're seldom mentioned with the elite teams or contenders. They're likely to be there again, but how they handle the young, risky pitching staff will determine whether they have a contender when that fancy new ballpark is ready.

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No, my grandpa told me a long time ago not to fight battles you can't win

which is why I "disappear" from threads, because on this website as soon as you try to state a viewpoint opposite the general consensus you're derided as an idiot.

This is a really stupid thing to say regarding this discussion, but OK. I've tried numerous times to actually engage in this discussion with you.

[Mainge]

No, my grandpa told me a long time ago not to fight battles you can't win

which is why I "disappear" from threads, because on this website as soon as you try to state a viewpoint opposite the general consensus you're derided as an idiot.

Disappearing is lame. It's exactly what Fip used to do if anyone disagreed with him.

I won't call you an idiot.

[emkayseven]

if you say so

Will Carroll's rankings are based an actuary data and probabilities and don't have much to do with the actual staff

[Mainge]

smh idiot

[Bobbob1313]

if you say so

Will Carroll's rankings are based an actuary data and probabilities and don't have much to do with the actual staff

I believe it is based on days lost.

But what I should do is be the bigger man, and go into another thread to troll you, right? My grampa taught me that one.
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Also, I fucking adore your response just now.

"I asked Maury brown, but he couldn't help. SMH i just can't find no darned figures. WHERE ARE SOME FIGURES?????

Oh, those aren't real, they don't count."
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3bk9KZWc#gid=4

Here, MK7. Here's data from last year. Let's see your calculations that prove Miami is worse than everyone.
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Shit, here's 2010 too: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1h0cmR1ZUJRTXc

And 2011: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...zNnc1JOTDNzTGc
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http://www.prosportstransactions.com...rch/Search.php

Here's a database of transactions you can search, including filtered by disabled list moves.
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I await your findings. I will disregard anything Will Carroll says upon reading yours, so chop chop, eh?

[emkayseven]

that's not the information I need. I can find disabled list info any time. I want to know how any injuries started out as minor and become something bigger. That's the point I'm making, not that we have more or fewer injuries than other teams.

[Beef]

You say that sometimes. But then when guys have regular injuries, it seems that you blame it on the strength and conditioning also.

[Bobbob1313]

that's not the information I need. I can find disabled list info any time. I want to know how any injuries started out as minor and become something bigger. That's the point I'm making, not that we have more or fewer injuries than other teams.

But if the Marlins have fewer days missed due to injury, it would imply that not that many injuries go from minor to major, wouldn't it? I mean, those guys who go from minor to major would end up on the DL, right? And if it happens more often for Miami than other organizations, there would be more time spent on the DL, right?

Either that, or they do an exceptionally good job of keeping players healthy overall, but once the rare players do get hurt, they are going to get more hurt somehow? And if that is the case, then I would say that still comes out in the wash as not a bad training staff, because they are then keeping more players healthy than the norm.

I'm just not sure how you can make the argument you are making about the training staff being abysmal and then think that time spent on the DL would not be reflective of that?
--------------------

that's not the information I need. I can find disabled list info any time. I want to know how any injuries started out as minor and become something bigger. That's the point I'm making, not that we have more or fewer injuries than other teams.

Also, you did this thing with Stanton, who suffered a shoulder injury and then suffered an unrelated hamstring injury a week or so later. How would that be an example of an injury going from minor to something bigger?

[emkayseven]

You say that sometimes. But then when guys have regular injuries, it seems that you blame it on the strength and conditioning also.

oh. where?

http://soflamarlins.com/search.php?searchid=1514944 every post I've said the word injury

http://soflamarlins.com/search.php?searchid=1514954 injured

http://soflamarlins.com/search.php?searchid=1514957 strength

http://soflamarlins.com/search.php?searchid=1514962 conditioning

http://soflamarlins.com/search.php?searchid=1514965 disabled

Here, beef. Here's data from the board's whole history. Let's see your calculations that prove I say it about regular injuries.

I await your findings. I will disregard anything Chris Towers says upon reading yours, so chop chop, eh?

[HUGG]

you forgot to change that last MK7 to Beef