Loria Refusing Overtures to Buy Team from Big Names, Including Jeb Bush

[emkayseven]

I do find it funny that they traded John Buck for a slightly cheaper and younger version of John Buck.

fuck, up till this point I forgot we had Jeff Mathis. Thanks for ruining my fucking day

[oakelmpine]

NOT THAT I LIKE HIM...

But people were not saying this last offseason.

Is it possible that he got rid of the team because the team he paid for sucked and he felt like this is the better route to go with at the moment? Sometimes not spending in free agency is best for a franchise. Especially a franchise that has been terrible the past couple of years.

Is it possible to not write an anti-Loria post and not love Loria at the same time?

Erick, if he had traded players for value then I could sort-of accept it. But to trade away that much talent, and not to get Toronto's # 1 prospect is too shady and reeks of not trying to win.

And for all of my hate for him, it's not centered around the November trade - that only sealed the deal. I've hated this man since I knew what he did in Montreal. He as much as killed that franchise and I knew he was bad news the day it was announced he was buying the Marlins.

[Todd]

Hey now, we were told by a well connected source that we didnt want Toronto's #1 prospect because hey...we have Rob Brantley.

[oakelmpine]

You already know what's going to happen this season?

Yeah, I think I can be a bit prescient on this one. If they win more than 65 I will call Redmond a genius. I'm expecting more like 55-60 wins.

The team has won 2 World Series titles in 2 decades. Do you know how many fanbases do not feel sorry for you right now?

I could really give two-shits how other fan bases feel. That their teams can't win, that's their issue.

I like that every time the team wins now, it's lucky; however, the history of losses has nothing to do with bad luck of course. You're really not biased.

2003 was lucky. If you wish to ignore that fact, then so be it. But it doesn't change the fact that that team had no business doing what it did. They couldn't even win their division, and they barely had a winning seasons in 2004 & 2005, and a losing season the year before the championship. That points more to 2003 being a fluke than what they really should have done. Loria was believing in fools gold if he thought he actually had multiple championship material.

[Mainge]

Wishing we were never awarded a franchise because Loria has traded some players and we've won at an average to above average rate since Loria's been an owner, is the height of lunacy.

No, Daft. this is not me supporting Loria.

[oakelmpine]

MLB contracts can't be restructured like they can in the NFL so that doesn't happen.

No, but if this group wins before they get above minimum contracts I am sure they will expect more than in normal arbitration. Loria will not stand for that. They will be history as soon as he can make it happen.

[Mainge]

2003 was lucky. If you wish to ignore that fact, then so be it. But it doesn't change the fact that that team had no business doing what it did. They couldn't even win their division, and they barely had a winning seasons in 2004 & 2005, and a losing season the year before the championship. That points more to 2003 being a fluke than what they really should have done. Loria was believing in fools gold if he thought he actually had multiple championship material.

Who cares? It doesn't count any less.

That happens almost every year.

[Ramp]

Yeah, I think I can be a bit prescient on this one. If they win more than 65 I will call Redmond a genius. I'm expecting more like 55-60 wins.

if they win 40 or they win 85, neither will be Redmond's doing
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2003 was lucky. If you wish to ignore that fact, then so be it. But it doesn't change the fact that that team had no business doing what it did. They couldn't even win their division, and they barely had a winning seasons in 2004 & 2005, and a losing season the year before the championship. That points more to 2003 being a fluke than what they really should have done. Loria was believing in fools gold if he thought he actually had multiple championship material.

From mid May on, that 2003 was the best in baseball. It wasn't luck.

Also, it's not like they went from 79 wins to 115. They improved by 12. That isn't crazy.

(and I will discuss a different kind of luck here that staheads would get, but thats besides the point)

Also, the 2003 team had some guy name Dontrelle Willis light the world on fire along with Miguel Cabrera.

[Mainge]

No, but if this group wins before they get above minimum contracts I am sure they will expect more than in normal arbitration. Loria will not stand for that. They will be history as soon as he can make it happen.

Then it goes to arbitration. Every team has players that go to arbitration.

Also, the arbitrators don't look at team success, so this is all moot.

[oakelmpine]

Samson stands to inherit much from his wealthy mother.

Hundreds of millions ? Because it takes at least that kind of wealth to operate a major league team. You have to have the kind of wealth that you can sustain a loss of tens of millions in a season, and it not really affect your holdings. Its part of the reason that we have some much trouble is the fact Loria is already the poorest owner in baseball. He can't really afford this expensive hobby.
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Wishing we were never awarded a franchise because Loria has traded some players and we've won at an average to above average rate since Loria's been an owner, is the height of lunacy.

No, Daft. this is not me supporting Loria.

You can call it what you wish. But its not been fun being a Marlins fan for more years than it has been fun. Every year is fun if you are a Yankee or Cardinal or Red Sox fan, even if they don't win. Because you know their owners will TRY to win the next year. Our owner doesn't get what he wants and then acts as though he says "fuck it, and fuck everyone in Miami, I am making money and if I lose fuck them, I will still make money from revenue sharing, fuck the taxpayers, and fuck the fans".

Sounds very rude, but that is the message he has sent out to everyone.

[nny]

So, just saying, that whole "I'd rather Loria be gone instead of winning a championship" thing...

Wouldn't that just prove that dismembering an expensive 69 win team to go cheaper and younger was the right thing to do?

I mean, I'm not defending the trade. I hate the trade. People are going to misrepresent this as OMG LORIA LOVER SAYING HE SHOULD HAVE MADE THAT TRADE because that's what a couple people have been doing the past several months.

But if we were to win a championship, I don't see how you could fault Loria for the trade anymore. It would have been the right thing to do.

It would also set us up to be constant competitors due to the payroll room that the trade freed up and the low cost of the current players.

So I REALLY don't understand the whole "I'd rather Loria be gone than win a championship"

[Bobbob1313]

y u luv lurea so mush tho

[Mainge]

You can call it what you wish. But its not been fun being a Marlins fan for more years than it has been fun. Every year is fun if you are a Yankee or Cardinal or Red Sox fan, even if they don't win. Because you know their owners will TRY to win the next year. Our owner doesn't get what he wants and then acts as though he says "fuck it, and fuck everyone in Miami, I am making money and if I lose fuck them, I will still make money from revenue sharing, fuck the taxpayers, and fuck the fans".

Sounds very rude, but that is the message he has sent out to everyone.

I have had a lot of fun. We've won more games than 16 other teams since Loria's been an owner. We've had some really special players come through and we've won two fucking championships.

This wasn't fun?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

Or this?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

This?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OigcvfkX10Q[/ame]

?

http://deadspin.com/5923463/hanley-r...-home-run-trot

?

[Party]

All that stuff is great, but things could have been a lot better. That is the frustration with being a Marlins fan.

The 2008 and 2009 teams were GREAT to watch. But Loria wanted to play poor so those teams never got the help they needed.

[Swifty]

I think in that scenario, the average baseball fan in Miami will have a very hard time rooting for them beyond the bandwagon september playoff push because becoming emotionally invested with the team (someone in this thread has said "you take sports way to seriously," but the entire concept of sports is based on the emotional attachment to rooting for something. This matters. The Marlins need people to take them way to seriously) is so fucking difficult when the franchise has been bombed in 1998, 2005, and 2013. Yes I know we can't blame Loria for the first one, but the average fan just sees ownership tearing it apart.

Why root for something if you are just going to get shit on? What has this ownership done to prove otherwise? They have to stop the pattern to start creating FANS and not make baseball a novelty act. It will take this ownership seasons and seasons of not being dickheads to garner any sort of trust, and I'm not sure they could ever cease being dickheads nor could ever win this city over after what they did this last offseason. They are going to field the lowest payroll in baseball, and it won't be close, 2nd year in a new mostly publicly funded stadium in a nearly bankrupt city after they promised "league average" payrolls and operating like a real franchise. That's the fucking point of building a stadium. I mean, I don't blame them for swindling Miami, applaud them for business and politically negotiating a good deal, but the fact they are tanking the team immediately is criminal. It's a slap in the face to everyone. They have done nothing to earn any credibility or respect, and yes I think that lack of trust in who is operating the team is going to have an enormous enormous effect on attendance and fanships.

Record low attendance coming, and will continue to come with this ownership. It's going to be an embarrassment.
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Sorry forgot something - CLOWNS

And this is why trading Hanley bothered me so much I swore off the team. Sometimes, franchises need to do things that show irrational connection, not constant turnover in the name of efficiency. You don't buy season tickets to watch Goldman Sachs do their thing.

At some point, act like a major league franchise. Give the fans something to hold onto and identify with, beyond just the team's colors. It's one thing to be Tampa and be so much better at what they do than everyone else because they have to, but for the mediocre franchises, it's not that hard to do one or two things because it's the "right" thing to do and not the smart thing to do. Give the fans something to hold onto because, in the lean years (which you're going to have a lot of as a mediocre franchise) that's what you're going to ask them to look to when they decide what they want to spend their entertainment dollars on.