Marlins 2013 BP Caps, Yes Plural

[Namaste]

Is this sarcasm?

Erick's always the last one to catch on to the enourmous amount of hatred that is directed toward the current ownership.

[Beef]

I guess if our next ownership group sells off players we'll call Loria a legendary hero?

[Erick]

Erick's always the last one to catch on to the enourmous amount of hatred that is directed toward the current ownership.

So you don't think the "Wayne would have never done what Loria did" part was weird even though Wayne actually did the same thing, but to a World Series winning team instead?

[Chewford]

I guess if our next ownership group sells off players we'll call Loria a legendary hero?

Wayne owned the Dolphins for a long time, he brought hockey to South Florida, he brought baseball to South Florida, he built Waste Management into the largest garbage collecting franchise in the country, he built Blockbuster video to what it was.

Loria killed baseball in Montreal, has eroded interested in the Marlins for the foreseeable future as he apparently has no interest in selling, and sold some artwork.

[Beef]

Everyone hated Wayne and he probably doesn't wash his hands after he uses the restroom

[Chewford]

He's one of the richest men in Florida, he can hire somebody to wash his hands for him.

[Bobbob1313]

He ruined Blockbuster!

[fauowls44]

Wayne owned the Dolphins for a long time, he brought hockey to South Florida, he brought baseball to South Florida, he built Waste Management into the largest garbage collecting franchise in the country, he built Blockbuster video to what it was.

Loria killed baseball in Montreal, has eroded interested in the Marlins for the foreseeable future as he apparently has no interest in selling, and sold some artwork.

Oh please. Wayne was loathed for what he did after 1997. Now Loria breaks up a 69 win team and all is forgiven? Nobody is questioning Wayne's greatness as a business man and nobody is denying that he was important in bringing baseball and hockey to South Florida, but he dismantled a World Series Champion, bailed when his one stadium attempt failed, and in the sale of the team, saddled the franchise with the worst stadium lease in sports. That's not even mentioning that his ownership of the Fins was largely a disaster. Hate Loria if you want, but can we please not pretend like Wayne was a great sports owner?

[Party]

Henry was responsible for the shitty lease at Sun Life. He thought he would lock up a new stadium quickly and agreed to whatever lease Huizenga threw at him.

[fauowls44]

Henry was responsible for the shitty lease at Sun Life. He thought he would lock up a new stadium quickly and agreed to whatever lease Huizenga threw at him.

LOL. Henry was an idiot for signing it, but he didn't negotiate the lease by himself. Wayne drew it up. He could have made things easier for the franchise he created. Instead, he made playing at his stadium as tough on the team as he possibly could. Wayne's a GREAT business man, but a terrible sports team owner. I don't get your sudden revisionist history of Wayne the owner. Why is Wayne breaking up a WS Champion suddenly OK because Loria shipped Jose Reyes to Toronto??

I know that we all don't like Loria and the way he is running this team, but that doesn't erase the fact that Wayne also sucked as a baseball owner and we hated how he ran the team.

[Party]

What history am I revising? Where did I say I was okay with it?

I'm just stating how the decision from his perspective was a good one if he was going to sell the team. That is not revising any history about the firesale or is it condoning it.

If you're Wayne and you sell your baseball team and keep your football team, wouldn't it make you a great team owner to use a tenant in your building to generate enough income to offset the costs of maintaining your building and paying for capital projects? The Marlins at the very least between '99 and 2011 ensured the Dolphins would contribute zero towards maintaining Joe Robbie. If you're a Dolphins fan, that makes Wayne a great owner. Huizenga is first and foremost a business man. He wasn't going to give his former team a discount just because some sentimental value existed there.

And prior to the firesale, Huizenga had been a great owner. He jumped ahead of other cities in the expansion process by offering to pay the expansion fee in cash. He brought in Carl Barger and hired an up and coming executive and built a World Champion in five years.

Then there's that whole thing with the Panthers.

With all that said, you will never see me celebrate Wayne Huizenga. He had the chance to build a serious franchise down here, threw it away, and did everything in his power to hold the franchise back. Anyone remember back in 2005 when a stadium deal was close with the state money pending and he came out and said he could pay for a new baseball stadium next to Sun Life? Or is my revisionist history getting in the way?

[fauowls44]

The revisionist history:

Yes, I'm done wearing the new stuff. It's symbolic of the Loria ownership. And while teal is symbolic of the Huizenga ownership, Wayne would have never done what Loria did.

No, Wayne would never do what Loria did...He just broke up a WS Champion! My objection is that you say you are OK with supporting that, but not the current ownership after they broke up a 69 win team. Again...I get not liking Loria, but it certainly sounds like you are willing to forgive what Wayne did because of what he did "prior to the firesale"...well Loria SAVED the team in South Florida. I don't like how he runs the team and can't wait for him to sell, but he at least is going to eventually leave a stable franchise when he's gone because of the ballpark. The same can't be said for Wayne.

Also, I am a Dolphins fan and LOL at Wayne being a "great football owner". He certainly made lots of money from the Marlins lease and put lots of money into the Fins...most of it spent poorly. He trusted the wrong people to run his team. He hired a mostly uninterested Jimmy Johnson, took his advice and hired Wannestadt, hired Cam Cameron over Mike Tomlin, and then gave Parcells a sweetheart deal. What "great" things did he do as Fins owner besides make a fortune off the team when he sold them?

[Party]

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

He broke up the team because he was selling it. He would have never broken up the team had he been in it for the long term because he is a good businessman and knows what it would have done to his reputation and in turn the franchise's reputation amongst fans. With all that said, I do not forgive him for breaking up the team. It is not something he can be forgiven for. He critically damaged the franchise and almost killed it. He thought baseball would not survive down here with the economic forces in play within baseball at the time. That has turned out to be a very short sighted and misguided move.

Loria gave up on a long term $250 million investment three months into a season and blew the whole thing up after just one season. Additionally, he kept the personnel responsible for putting that disaster together, to oversee the clean-up.

MLB, George Burgess and Bob DuPuy saved baseball in Miami not Loria. It is very well documented how many times Samson turned off many in the city and county for his abrasive negotiating tactics. There is also no public record of Loria sitting in on these meetings and being critical in the negotiations. He had other people working on his behalf and other who did not trust the people working on his behalf (MLB). Huizenga gave up quickly into the process and I've clearly said he's the best owner we've ever had in a very lackluster group.

[Beef]

Ok, but then to say Wayne would have never done exactly this is also to say perhaps that had Wayne been the owner when Loria was, he maybe would have given up and the Marlins maybe would not be in Florida all.

[Party]

That would be a question to ask Huizenga. The economics of the game changed drastically from 1998 to 2009 and the environment was a lot more conducive for a middle market team to turn a profit. MLB had several teams losing tons of money back in the 90s and Huizenga did not see himself participating in that, unless the system were changed like I stated before. New revenue streams also made it more favorable for owners to put more money into stadium financing because it wouldn't have hamstrung a middle market team in Miami. Moreover, many things were different at the governmental level that made a publicly subsidized ballpark more likely in the 2000s. The CDT and TDT revenues became much larger portions of the financing mechanism because they were wildly successful. When Huizenga and Henry were owners, most of the money was going to come from poorly thought out taxes on cruise passengers. The City and County were nearly bankrupt and coming off a decade in which voters and politicos told the Dolphins of all teams to build their own stadium. In the mid 2000s and up to the crash the City and County had seen the largest building booms in decades and most of the damage from the 80s and 90s had been undone.