2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

Orioles signing Kimbrel. He isnt what he used to be, but that takes a lot of the desperate need they had for a closer like Scott away. They could still use some depth in that pen, but the hole isnt quite as glaring, which might take away some leverage to really capitalize on scott's value, at least as it concerns a deal with the orioles for one of their hitting prospects.

[fish16]

There are certainly plenty of holes left - ones that Kim left unaddressed for years. I also don't think it's unrealistic to think they won't be able to address all the issues in a single offseason, especially considering '25 fits with Sandy being back and just about all innings limits being gone.

That said, I don't want a punt year because of those things, either.

Also, the innings sandy eats are not replaceable, but if there is a team with the young arms to be able to fill it as much as possible, it might be us. Luzardo, Garrett, Eury are all really good pitchers already, I can easily see Cabrera taking a big step next year, and then you have a plethora of other options like Rogers, Meyer, Weathers, etc. And that's without us signing any depth. 1 quality depth arm who can give us 180 quality innings would go a long way. The only real piece we are losing offensively is Soler who had a 1.9 WAR. We are also losing Wendle and Stallings who had a combined -1.6 WAR, so in the aggregate we are losing .3 WAR, which can easily be made up with health from Jazz, full seasons here for Berger and Bell, and then signing a DH to replace Soler and then either using the trade market or lower levels of free agency to sign a corner outfielder, SS or Rosario. Simply finding a way to acquire pure competence at SS and C will be huge. Doesnt even have to be excellence, mere competence would do with how bad those fucking guys were last year.

I dont even like Teoscar hernandez that much, but if you sign him, Amed Rosario, and then say Knizner, and say michael lorenzon as depth SP, combined with health from Jazz and full years from Bell and Burger, that is a better team from last year. Last year's team was also lucky to begin with, but this whole idea that they need radical upgrades to compete again is just not true. It will take health, but every team needs health, or at least every small market team like us does because we dont have the resources to buy replacements.

[fish16]

from heyman- Marlins are at least listening to trade talk on their fine stash of young starting pitchers, That presumably includes Luzardo, Garrett and Cabrera (and more).

[fish16]

if we sign martin maldonado to replace stallings i might lose my mind. just go get knizner and get someone young with a little upside.

[lou]

There are certainly plenty of holes left - ones that Kim left unaddressed for years. I also don't think it's unrealistic to think they won't be able to address all the issues in a single offseason, especially considering '25 fits with Sandy being back and just about all innings limits being gone.

That said, I don't want a punt year because of those things, either.

I think things like Maldonado, IKF, etc. is effectively punting. I’d say, if they are going to literally lite money on fire if that’s the plan, as those guys won’t even be trade assets come July, they might as well just get rid of everyone with under 3 years of control and use that money for arbitration buy outs as that’ll be more franchise impactful. You get it. It won’t happen but that would be the smarter idea if you’re throwing in the towel as an organization. They can also probably do that at the ASB as all the guys they could be able to trade are rentals anyways.

They can fill every hole on this team for $120m payroll, or less if there is a more aggressive trade (like Noble for Endy Rodriguez sort of level move, etc.). So if they don’t, it just boils down to them kicking the can and waiting for those innings to erupt in 2025 when Sandy is back, Eury, Fulton, and Meyer most importantly are built up another year, etc. This is such a good moment for Bruce to invest which is why I’m annoyed - this is an investment in culture and is he not seeing what the Heat, Dolphins, Panthers, and Canes are doing as all 4 of them are setting the right attitudes with how they are running their organizations.

[lou]

Also, the innings sandy eats are not replaceable, but if there is a team with the young arms to be able to fill it as much as possible, it might be us. Luzardo, Garrett, Eury are all really good pitchers already, I can easily see Cabrera taking a big step next year, and then you have a plethora of other options like Rogers, Meyer, Weathers, etc. And that's without us signing any depth. 1 quality depth arm who can give us 180 quality innings would go a long way. The only real piece we are losing offensively is Soler who had a 1.9 WAR. We are also losing Wendle and Stallings who had a combined -1.6 WAR, so in the aggregate we are losing .3 WAR, which can easily be made up with health from Jazz, full seasons here for Berger and Bell, and then signing a DH to replace Soler and then either using the trade market or lower levels of free agency to sign a corner outfielder, SS or Rosario. Simply finding a way to acquire pure competence at SS and C will be huge. Doesnt even have to be excellence, mere competence would do with how bad those fucking guys were last year.

I dont even like Teoscar hernandez that much, but if you sign him, Amed Rosario, and then say Knizner, and say michael lorenzon as depth SP, combined with health from Jazz and full years from Bell and Burger, that is a better team from last year. Last year's team was also lucky to begin with, but this whole idea that they need radical upgrades to compete again is just not true. It will take health, but every team needs health, or at least every small market team like us does because we dont have the resources to buy replacements.

You’re adding $35-40m in payroll there with Teoscar, Lorenzen, and Rosario. Thats a $120m+ team if you aren’t trading off money (…. Like Scott, Berti, Rogers, and Okert).

[fish16]

You’re adding $35-40m in payroll there with Teoscar, Lorenzen, and Rosario. Thats a $120m+ team if you aren’t trading off money (…. Like Scott, Berti, Rogers, and Okert).

I would deal Berti, Okert, and Scott which is a little less than 11 million, and Soler is already gone off last year's roster and he made 15 million, as is Stallings and Wendle who made 9.35 themselves. Gurriel made 1.2 million.

Then you have Cueto, Barnes, and Robertson gone as well, though Barnes and Cueto had small buyouts. Obviously some of that is offset by arbitration raises from a few guys, but still, It's not much more than last year's payroll. They have a good amount of money that has come off the books and can come off the books.

[lou]

I would deal Berti, Okert, and Scott which is a little less than 11 million, and Soler is already gone off last year's roster and he made 15 million, as is Stallings and Wendle who made 9.35 themselves. Gurriel made 1.2 million.

Then you have Cueto, Barnes, and Robertson gone as well, though Barnes and Cueto had small buyouts. Obviously some of that is offset by arbitration raises from a few guys, but still, It's not much more than last year's payroll. They have a good amount of money that has come off the books and can come off the books.

Scott, Berti, and one of Okert/Rogers/Chargois traded would get that to $110m-ish for sure, with adding Teoscar, Rosario, and Lorenzen. Would Bruce spend $110m?

[fish16]

Scott, Berti, and one of Okert/Rogers/Chargois traded would get that to $110m-ish for sure, with adding Teoscar, Rosario, and Lorenzen. Would Bruce spend $110m?

what was our final payroll last year? 110 million would be 65 million lower than the median payroll in baseball last year. Not average, but the median. IF he cant get to that level, he can not be a major league owner. How does this fucking clown not have the vision that this team needs an upfront investment to make that kind of payroll sustainable long term?

[rmc523]

what was our final payroll last year? 110 million would be 65 million lower than the median payroll in baseball last year. Not average, but the median. IF he cant get to that level, he can not be a major league owner. How does this fucking clown not have the vision that this team needs an upfront investment to make that kind of payroll sustainable long term?

According to sportrac, $105,435,809

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2023/

Anyone know what we made for the playoff appearance?

[lou]

According to sportrac, $105,435,809

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2023/

Anyone know what we made for the playoff appearance?

I think that’s about right as Bell and Robertson raised that a bit. Opening day was lower.

This is around $85m and I think we’d agree this is the team today. Amaya is the only other guy I’d argue could be put on and he’s CC.

____, Fortes
Arraez, Bell
Edwards, Brujan
Berti, ___
Burger
____, DLC
Jazz
Sanchez

Luzardo, Eury, Garrett, Cabrera, Rogers
____, Chargois, Brazoban
Scott, Puk, Nardi, Okert, Weathers

Dead - Barnes, Cueto
please DFA - Garcia
IL - Sandy
AAA - Bender (he hits arb)

[lou]

*Max not on team to build up arm/rust/deflect service time. Hes a July guy for me

[fish16]

couple things that have come out during the winter meetings from marlins reporters there- They will try edwards at SS, Puk will be stretched out as a SP for spring, and they likely wont take someone today in the rule 5. Interesting but not surprising, those spots are where those guys could have the most value, so it makes sense to exhaust the option if possible.

[lou]

couple things that have come out during the winter meetings from marlins reporters there- They will try edwards at SS, Puk will be stretched out as a SP for spring, and they likely wont take someone today in the rule 5. Interesting but not surprising, those spots are where those guys could have the most value, so it makes sense to exhaust the option if possible.

I mentioned earlier I wouldn’t be surprised if they stretch out Puk. This is the “Rays” now remember. Also stretched out can mean a lot of things - he can average 2.1-2.2 innings over 40 appearances and all of a sudden throw 95-100+ innings. I think it’s a great idea to do that. Call it a 1 time through the lineup guy. They can do the same thing with Weathers and always have one available for Eury and Cabrera. I’d like to think that routinely gets you into the 7th inning to hand off to Nardi, Scott, and god willingly Max is up fast for a devastating top 3 bullpen arm depth chart there.

Not sure about Edwards but godspeed.

I can still see them taking a RHP arm in rule 5, but that would be it if anything.

[fish16]

nasim nunez taken by the nats. he will be returned at some point.