2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[lou]

Max Muncy has a lot more power than Johnston. I don’t want to pile on this as Nick/fish16 got it, but that’s a very bad comparison Lee. They are outrageously different players.

[lou]

rosenthal is supposedly reporting that teams are showing interest in cabrera and surprisingly trevor rogers. Orioles make too much sense for rogers. i wouldnt touch cabrera. His value will be significantly higher this time next year. makes no sense to deal him now.

I came here for this as I saw the same thing. It also said Cabrera has a partial lat strain depressing his value. They gotta keep him and let him explode if he is arguably hurt. Unless someone is going to pay 100% value for him. Just get him healthy. I’m not surprised at all about Rogers. It’s buying low for a guy who will eventually be healthy.

The report also said Luzardo and Garrett are basically off limits. I wouldn’t put Garrett as off limits, but I get it.

Maybe they should pull a Cardinals and sign two SP (to go with
Eury, Luzardo, and Garrett) and trade three of Cabrera, Rogers, Max, Weathers, Fulton, Noble, and White (keeping at least two of those first 4 so you have 7 SP for 2024 + Monteverde which seems like a fine 8th SP), for the bats. Maybe you send the Cards or Orioles Scott/Nardi/Puk, Rogers, and Max for a real haul of bats. You’re getting a ton for that and the Marlins can really absorb that signing SP.

[Lee Stone]

Max Muncy has a lot more power than Johnston. I don’t want to pile on this as Nick/fish16 got it, but that’s a very bad comparison Lee. They are outrageously different players.

They are incredibly the same. Through age 26 for both of them (all in minors), Muncy had just 63 hr in 573 games and .275 avg, .382 OBP and .819 OPS. Johnston has hit 58 hr in 427 games and .312 avg, .387 OBP and .854 OPS. Johnston, also a LHB, is just starting to show power at age 26, exactly as Muncy did. Like I said, amazingly similar paths.

[lou]

They are incredibly the same. Through age 26 for both of them (all in minors), Muncy had just 63 hr in 573 games and .275 avg, .382 OBP and .819 OPS. Johnston has hit 58 hr in 427 games and .312 avg, .387 OBP and .854 OPS. Johnston, also a LHB, is just starting to show power at age 26, exactly as Muncy did. Like I said, amazingly similar paths.

Johnston has 40-45 grade power. He’s never going to be Muncy who has hit 35 HR at the MLB level four times. Johnston won’t hit 35 for his career.

These are entirely different players. This is comparing apples to elk

[Nick]

Lee is overrating Johnson, lou and fish16 are underrating him. Get out of here with that 40-45 grade power crap. Dude hit 26 HRs between AA and AAA last year in two places where it's not exactly easy to hit HRs.

[Nick]

Also, I don't think Max Muncy is a bad comparison at all. That being said 26-year old AAA Max Muncy turning into the hitter he has become was a longshot, as is Troy Johnston turning into Max Muncy.

[Lee Stone]

Outside of Eury Perez, Rogers and Cabrera are the last starters you'd want to trade. Reason: their value is far too low, given their upside. Rogers will come into the 2024 season in the best shape of his life. I think he's a future all star. Cabrera has the best stuff of any Marlin pitcher. Control/command can be improved. His giant overall stuff package is sensational. Luzardo and Garrett are probably at peak value and would command the best return. All that said, the only deal I'd consider would be something like Luzardo and a relief pitcher to the Yankees for Dominguez (future star but out for this entire upcoming season most likely, Peraza, and Pereira. Realistically, the Marlins have no proven pitching to spare.

[fish16]

Lee is overrating Johnson, lou and fish16 are underrating him. Get out of here with that 40-45 grade power crap. Dude hit 26 HRs between AA and AAA last year in two places where it's not exactly easy to hit HRs.

26 home runs over 560+ plate appearances as a 26 year old in aa and aaa is not elite power. That’s going to be pretty average power at the big league level

[Lee Stone]

26 home runs over 560+ plate appearances as a 26 year old in aa and aaa is not elite power. That’s going to be pretty average power at the big league level

It was more power than Muncy managed at the same age ... that's the entire point. Will Johnston take off from this point, like Muncy did, or not? In either case, I hate to see the story play out in Kansas City or Colorado.

[lou]

Also, I don't think Max Muncy is a bad comparison at all. That being said 26-year old AAA Max Muncy turning into the hitter he has become was a longshot, as is Troy Johnston turning into Max Muncy.

Im not under rating him. Hes a fringe MLB player an offensive starved team opted to keep off their 40 man roster. There isn’t much more to say here. Max Muncy is a ludicrously different player profile.

[lou]

It was more power than Muncy managed at the same age ... that's the entire point. Will Johnston take off from this point, like Muncy did, or not? In either case, I hate to see the story play out in Kansas City or Colorado.

The basis of how they get stats and does that skill translate to the next level matters. His lack of power is going to be a liability when pitchers can just attack him (and he’s not an Edwards who can play 2B and run) and at best he’s a near replacement level poor man’s ty France who may do a little more against right handers.

They have the Rays guy now, trust them.

[lou]

Outside of Eury Perez, Rogers and Cabrera are the last starters you'd want to trade. Reason: their value is far too low, given their upside. Rogers will come into the 2024 season in the best shape of his life. I think he's a future all star. Cabrera has the best stuff of any Marlin pitcher. Control/command can be improved. His giant overall stuff package is sensational. Luzardo and Garrett are probably at peak value and would command the best return. All that said, the only deal I'd consider would be something like Luzardo and a relief pitcher to the Yankees for Dominguez (future star but out for this entire upcoming season most likely, Peraza, and Pereira. Realistically, the Marlins have no proven pitching to spare.

In a world where pedestrian 5th starters costs you $10-22m on 1-2 year deals, your perspective on Cabrera and Rogers is very wrong. They are extremely valuable.However, we can also say they will be insanely valuable if they have 100 good innings at the ASB and the Marlins are out of it and have a starter to burn

[Nick]

26 home runs over 560+ plate appearances as a 26 year old in aa and aaa is not elite power. That’s going to be pretty average power at the big league level

when did I say Elite power? 26 HRs in a season is a good amount of HRs for anyone at any level.

[Nick]

Im not under rating him. Hes a fringe MLB player an offensive starved team opted to keep off their 40 man roster. There isn’t much more to say here. Max Muncy is a ludicrously different player profile.

An offensive starved team that is in the middle of a regime change when it comes to baseball personnel, with a history of inept decisions when it comes to offensive personnel. Max Muncy was just as much of a middling prospect in AAA at Age 26 as Troy Johnston is, if not moreso. I'd argue Johnston is a more consistent performer at this stage. Muncy had a little bit of Major League Experience at that time, which Johnston doesn't, but was very unproductive in his MLB stints at that point.

[Lee Stone]

MSN: Overaged and lowly drafted, 1B Troy Johnston (MIA) has played his way into prospect status by ripping every level of the minors to shreds. He's another poor fit with the roster and unless he can get to his power consistently (he does have some juice, check out this highlight) he probably won't stick around for long. Nevertheless, I can't help but be intrigued by his skyrocketing line drive rate in Triple-A — an almost unbelievable 41.1 percent by season's end.