2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[Lee Stone]

The only thing I can figure about a potential Yuli signing is that they think they can trade Cooper for something of value (perhaps Cooper+Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick?) . Otherwise, pairing Gurriel with Cooper at 1B doesn't make a lot of sense.

Cooper was an All Star, like Arraez, last season. Could Arraez be worth an excellent starting pitcher, a top 100 prospect and another promising prospect while Cooper is worth nothing?

[emkayseven]

Now we're cooking! Baseball Reference projects 7 homers and 50 rbi for Arraez in the coming season. Wait, that sucks. As does his total lack of speed and marginal glove at 2B. (a five-ten or less 1B is no positive either).

Chisholm could have moved to CF (as suggested multiple times) last season to improve the team. Segura could play 2B this coming year (his best defensive position). Lopez or another pitcher could have been traded for a young 3B with upside and pop in the bat.

Per Baseballtradevalues, Lopez alone was worth far more than Arraez. Couldn't agree more. While a lot of ridiculous trade scenarios can be conjured based on individual trade values attached to players, the site is nearly always very close to valuations on trades that actually take place. This deal was an exception. The Twins received nearly double the value that Arraez had. That suggests a huge miss for the Marlins GM. If Royce Lewis had been included in the deal, it would have worked for me.

This is the second deal in which the Twins fleeced the Marlins in the last year. The first was when the Fish basically traded Dylan Lee to the Twins by taking Jacob Berry in the draft with the pick prior to the Twins, leaving Minnesota with the vastly better prospect in Lee. Like Arraez, Berry was/is a one-tool guy.

I can easily see Jacob Amaya as shortsop on opening day.

would LOVE for you to name the young 3B with upside and pop in the bat that is available via trade

[Lee Stone]

would LOVE for you to name the young 3B with upside and pop in the bat that is available via trade

Just looking at the Orioles, how about Jordan Westburg or Coby Mayo? Below, a look at Westburg, who is seen as ML ready but buried on the depth chart. I believe that Lopez would have gotten him from Baltimore.

Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 55 | Arm: 55 | Field: 55 | Overall: 55 Five tools.

Westburg was a star who helped lead Mississippi State to College World Series appearances in 2018 and 2019 when he emerged as one of the top collegiate infielders in the country alongside future Rangers prospect Justin Foscue. Impressed with his combination of athleticism, power and speed, the Orioles selected Westburg with the No. 30 overall pick in 2020, 16 spots after Foscue went to Texas. He signed for full pick value ($2,365,500), immediately becoming one of the best infield prospects in a Baltimore system lacking them.

Since, Westburg has done little to alter that perception. He opened eyes at Baltimore’s instructional camp in 2020 then excelled across three levels in 2021, hitting .285 with a .868 OPS, 15 homers and 17 steals. Flashing a blend of tools from his 6-foot-3, 200-pound frame, Westburg’s most notable attribute is his combination of strength and bat speed. He has a compact right-handed swing that can drive the ball gap-to-gap and with power, particularly to the pull side, and an aggressive approach that led to occasional struggles with pitch recognition in college. He’s quelled most of those concerns as a pro despite showing some swing-and-miss, reaching base at a .389 clip in his first full season. All told, it’s an offensive profile some believe could produce 20 or more homers annually in the big leagues.

Last season, in AA and mostly AAA, 27 hr and 106 rbi and .851 OPS.

[fish16]

If they sign gurriel I would think it means they are comfortable with soler or Cooper playing in the outfield, or they aren’t done and Cooper will be moved

[Nick]

Signing Gurriel to trade Cooper makes no sense to me. I'm no Cooper fan, but he was significantly better than Gurriel was last year, and Gurriel turns 39 in June. Not like we have a replacement 1st baseman waiting in the wings on the farm either.

[fish16]

Signing Gurriel to trade Cooper makes no sense to me. I'm no Cooper fan, but he was significantly better than Gurriel was last year, and Gurriel turns 39 in June. Not like we have a replacement waiting in the wings on the farm either.

Agreed. That’s why I think if soler is in such good shape like Mish said the other week and they are confident he could play lf some, maybe it’s to have gurriel and Cooper split time at 1b and dh to keep them both fresh and see if gurriel can bounce back and have a great year like he did in 2021 and 2019

[lou]

It’s nonsensical. If he’s healthy he’s on the roster, likely starting as a reliever and working towards the closer role

He hasn't pitched in 2.5 years. This would be very aggressive, but hey, maybe there is no rust. I think it's not non-sensical to assume there is rust, as well as this organization is very interested in service time with Cabrera/Garrett having exactly .168 days each (very important), as well as the timing of the Meyer call up last year, etc. Sixto is still incredibly young and if he is finally through his issues, no reason to not treat him as the top 100 prospect guy he always was.

[lou]

With the Twins trade, the Marlins now have "ALL STAR" Garrett Cooper playing both first and second base. Both Arraez and Coop are one tool guys. If the Marlins see Arraez as having leadoff hitter attributes due to OBP alone, why the heck wasn't Cooper leading off last season?

He's not that bad at 2B Lee. He's been pretty solid his last 850 innings (2020-2022). The Twins had better defenders (Correa, Urshela) manning two spots, and mixed/matched Polanco (historically a good enough defender), Gordon, and Miranda at the other two IF spots with Arraez. It is circumstantial (likely mainly because Kiriloff got hurt) he ended up getting 725 innings off 2B + DH time. No one is going to confuse him with Rojas/Wendle with the glove, but he's fine. And importantly, his bat plays at 2B big time so you can accept a few more singles through the middle because his gains at the plate radically out weigh what is lost. Just like Dan Uggla. I think he's an easy 3+ WAR guy at 2B which is great, and he has 4+ upside with a good BABIP year/incremental power increases.

Arraez is also better than Cooper.

[lou]

The only thing I can figure about a potential Yuli signing is that they think they can trade Cooper for something of value (perhaps Cooper+Sanchez/Bleday/Burdick?) . Otherwise, pairing Gurriel with Cooper at 1B doesn't make a lot of sense.

It doesn't at all. Gurriel can hit LHP a bit.... but that's what Cooper should do. If Gurriel is cheaper than Cooper, that saves money and maybe Profar (1B/2B/LF) becomes more of a piece for them. 1B would be a weird mix of Gurriel/Profar/Arraez, but hey, beggars can't be choosers? I think they'd get something decent, like Amaya, for Cooper. He's cheap, great statcast. Someone wants him as a 100+ game DH in a contract year for sure. It's why they should keep him. The idea of getting him help is right, I just think Yuli is likely the wrong player and sets up another triple DH scenario as Soler should really not be in the field.

[lou]

Cooper was an All Star, like Arraez, last season. Could Arraez be worth an excellent starting pitcher, a top 100 prospect and another promising prospect while Cooper is worth nothing?

Arraez has 3 years of control, is significantly younger, and plays tougher defensive positions better. This is not an apples to apples comparison. These are radically different guys.

[lou]

would LOVE for you to name the young 3B with upside and pop in the bat that is available via trade

I'm with Lee here with Westburg - I mentioned him before if they could maybe pull him along with Mullins/Mountcastle. Mayo is more of a 1B/DH it seems (I think he is from Coral Springs though so that may be a fun hometown snag like Luzardo) though.

Westburg is the Orioles 2B of the future however, so they may be disinclined to move him the same way we consider Sandy/Jazz/Eury are untouchable (he's a step below prospect wise from those guys, but they have a really good set up with their young guys so I think he is very highly valuable to them. Just a hunch). They need pitching, but they have other guys they can move plus they will spend money. He'd be a tough get, but would have been perfect.

That being said, nothing is wrong with Arraez. He's good. He fills a massive void. Lee is wrong about him. The only issue is we need that 5 year extension announced or they likely overpaid a little bit with Salas on paper.

[lou]

Signing Gurriel to trade Cooper makes no sense to me. I'm no Cooper fan, but he was significantly better than Gurriel was last year, and Gurriel turns 39 in June. Not like we have a replacement 1st baseman waiting in the wings on the farm either.

It makes no sense. His statcast is "please retire." Unless he was just hurt and we don't know about it.

[lou]

Agreed. That’s why I think if soler is in such good shape like Mish said the other week and they are confident he could play lf some, maybe it’s to have gurriel and Cooper split time at 1b and dh to keep them both fresh and see if gurriel can bounce back and have a great year like he did in 2021 and 2019

If they signed him, I think it would be something like this on paper (based on 160 games for easy math):

C - Fortes 90 / Stallings 70
1B - Cooper 90 / Gurriel 70
2B - Arraez 140 / Berti 20
SS - Wendle 120 / Segura 40
3B - Segura 90 / Berti 70
LF - DLC 70 / Sanchez 50 / Soler 40
CF - Jazz 130 / DLC 30
RF - Garcia 130 / Sanchez 30
DH - Soler 100 / Gurriel 30 / Cooper 30

Starts
Arraez - 140
Soler - 140
Jazz - 130*
Garcia - 130
Segura - 130
Cooper - 120
Wendle - 120
DLC - 100
Gurriel - 100
Berti - 90
Fortes - 90
Sanchez - 80
Stallings - 70

Sits once a week on a lefty, could scale up. Give him (and Arraez) the extra 16 games not accounted for based on 162 schedule if you want.


We'll see what they do. I just don't get Gurriel here where we'd be accepting some really skeptical backup 1B/CF/LF time when this could easily be figured out. Rojas does make more sense on this roster versus Gurriel if we can project this roster spot to around 100 starts, and just shift Arraez over. That's perfect for Rojas (but still fine with that trade).

Frankly if they want to contend, they need to upgrade 200 starts on this roster. Gurriel, Sanchez, and slight changes to everyone else gets you there and Reynolds/Rosario and some other better situated player (Profar? M. Taylor), makes this a much better team. So basically, trade for Reynolds/Rosario and pick up Taylor in a small trade/sign Profar, ditch just Sanchez, and thats a pretty nice looking offensive team that isn't killing anything defensively on paper.

[sports24/7]

Cooper was an All Star, like Arraez, last season. Could Arraez be worth an excellent starting pitcher, a top 100 prospect and another promising prospect while Cooper is worth nothing?

It’s posts like this that have me questioning if you’re just here to troll. There’s no way anyone actually thinks a 32 year old that’s never played more than 119 games because he can’t stay healthy, barely made the all-star team, and then saw his play fall off a cliff should be valued closely to a 25 year old league batting champ with one of the best hit tools in all of baseball simply because they were both all-stars. I mean, why stop there? Soto was also an all-star. They should be able to get the same return the Nationals got for him in a Cooper deal.

[Namaste]

I focus on Lee’s sense of humor (which I genuinely enjoy) a lot more than his wild takes and occasional ridiculousness.