Larry Beinfest's Future with the Marlins

[tjfla]

The worst part of about our drafting has been drafting pitching or for a need instead of the BPA.

04 We draft Tank instead of Gio Gonzalez
05 We draft Volstad and Thompson instead of Jacoby Ellsbury then Marceaux,Tucker,West instead of Lowrie,Bucholz. I know we had to save cash since so many picks but imagine if we take those 3 instead of Boston
06 We draft Brett Sinkbeil however really didnt pass on anything that we couldn't afford anyway(Kennedy,Bard)
07-We need a 3B of the future so we draft Matt Dominguez instead of Jason Heyward
08 We need a C of the future so we draft Skip instead of Alonso,Castro,Smoak,Lawrie
09 We take Chad James and pass on Shelby Miller,Mike Trout
10 We take the BPA and get Yelich!!!!!

We also need to get back in the International market!!!

[Bobbob1313]

I seem to remember Yelich being something of a surprise at our spot. Not sure he was necessarily BPA at the time. Feels like you're playing the results.

[tjfla]

I seem to remember Yelich being something of a surprise at our spot. Not sure he was necessarily BPA at the time. Feels like you're playing the results.

Going by how they are doing now actually,guys drafted after him were Gary Brown,Zach Cox,Kyle Parker(We wouldn't draft),Jesse Biddle,Zach Lee(We couldn't afford)

So while he prolly wasn't the BPA at the time,it was a very good pick

[Anonymous]

Also, I seem to remember Heyward not wanting to play with anyone but Atlanta.

[Erick]

Going by how they are doing now actually,guys drafted after him were Gary Brown,Zach Cox,Kyle Parker(We wouldn't draft),Jesse Biddle,Zach Lee(We couldn't afford)

So while he prolly wasn't the BPA at the time,it was a very good pick

Well, yes, that is the definition of playing the result, as he said.

[lou]

The worst part of about our drafting has been drafting pitching or for a need instead of the BPA.

04 We draft Tank instead of Gio Gonzalez
05 We draft Volstad and Thompson instead of Jacoby Ellsbury then Marceaux,Tucker,West instead of Lowrie,Bucholz. I know we had to save cash since so many picks but imagine if we take those 3 instead of Boston
06 We draft Brett Sinkbeil however really didnt pass on anything that we couldn't afford anyway(Kennedy,Bard)
07-We need a 3B of the future so we draft Matt Dominguez instead of Jason Heyward
08 We need a C of the future so we draft Skip instead of Alonso,Castro,Smoak,Lawrie
09 We take Chad James and pass on Shelby Miller,Mike Trout
10 We take the BPA and get Yelich!!!!!

We also need to get back in the International market!!!

We did this before the season and it was pretty definitively shown Beinfest is, at worst, an average drafter among all MLB teams.

Yes on international market, but they did go after Cepedes until the A's gave that silly deal. But this is idiotic. Hindsight. I only really blame him on not taking Ellsbury instead of one of the pitchers, and taking Skipworth instead of Crow/Smoak/Beckham, and it's not like any of them are any amazing so I can't complain.
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Also I am not reading the thread and sure someone pointed this out, he is signed through 2015 along with the rest of the key members of the front office. They aren't buying them all out.

Let's not talk out of frustration because their june sucked. It's not Beinfest fault Gaby completely is doing nothing, Morrison did nothing for months, Hanley has not reverted offensively (no complaints defensively which was a big story), Reyes didn't hit for a month, etc. I really only blame him on Bell for this team, and a good Bell isn't make/breaking the team compared to the sheer lack of underperformance on offense.

I don't want to make it seem like I am an apologist because things could be better, but it's not all his fault and the process of how he does things is certainly more good than bad. How good has Ruggiano been? Axing him fixes nothing.

Stay the course, end of the year evaluation. I still think if they can get Span/Bourjos and another reliever, and Morrison/Bonifacio/Hanley/Reyes hit a bit more this team starts looking ok. That's also not a lot to ask for really.

[Todd]

The worst part of about our drafting has been drafting pitching or for a need instead of the BPA.

04 We draft Tank instead of Gio Gonzalez
05 We draft Volstad and Thompson instead of Jacoby Ellsbury then Marceaux,Tucker,West instead of Lowrie,Bucholz. I know we had to save cash since so many picks but imagine if we take those 3 instead of Boston
06 We draft Brett Sinkbeil however really didnt pass on anything that we couldn't afford anyway(Kennedy,Bard)
07-We need a 3B of the future so we draft Matt Dominguez instead of Jason Heyward
08 We need a C of the future so we draft Skip instead of Alonso,Castro,Smoak,Lawrie
09 We take Chad James and pass on Shelby Miller,Mike Trout
10 We take the BPA and get Yelich!!!!!

We also need to get back in the International market!!!

Jacoby Ellsbury-$1.4 million
Chris Volstad-$1.6 million
Aaron Thompson-$1.2 million

Jacob Marceaux-$1 million
Sean West-$775K
Ryan Tucker-$975K
Lowrie-$750K
Buchholz-$800K

By aggregate, that was terrible first round drafting.

Speaking of James/Miller/Trout(Trout signed for $500K less than James actually), wasnt James a signability pick and reach where he was picked? I seem to remember most speculating that he still would have been there in round 2 when the Fish picked again.

[Bobbob1313]

Stop trying to remember things. You're the worst at it. Jesus christ, how many times do we have to do the Chad James thing with you?

You also said you read he would be a LOOGY and then said "But don't ask me where I read it." Just stop.

[Party]

We did this before the season and it was pretty definitively shown Beinfest is, at worst, an average drafter among all MLB teams.

Yes on international market, but they did go after Cepedes until the A's gave that silly deal. But this is idiotic. Hindsight. I only really blame him on not taking Ellsbury instead of one of the pitchers, and taking Skipworth instead of Crow/Smoak/Beckham, and it's not like any of them are any amazing so I can't complain.
--------------------
Also I am not reading the thread and sure someone pointed this out, he is signed through 2015 along with the rest of the key members of the front office. They aren't buying them all out.

Let's not talk out of frustration because their june sucked. It's not Beinfest fault Gaby completely is doing nothing, Morrison did nothing for months, Hanley has not reverted offensively (no complaints defensively which was a big story), Reyes didn't hit for a month, etc. I really only blame him on Bell for this team, and a good Bell isn't make/breaking the team compared to the sheer lack of underperformance on offense.

I don't want to make it seem like I am an apologist because things could be better, but it's not all his fault and the process of how he does things is certainly more good than bad. How good has Ruggiano been? Axing him fixes nothing.

Stay the course, end of the year evaluation. I still think if they can get Span/Bourjos and another reliever, and Morrison/Bonifacio/Hanley/Reyes hit a bit more this team starts looking ok. That's also not a lot to ask for really.

He's average at best with a bunch of what-ifs. That's not going to cut it for a middle market team like the Marlins. We are starting to pay for it now. That huge wave of pitching we drafted in 2005 fell completely on their faces. That set the organization back a few years and I remember at the time (hehe) many people calling that draft into serious question because of the enormous gamble the FO putting all their eggs in one basket. For every JJ and Stanton, there is a Hermierda, Chris Coughlan, Chris Volstad, Gaby Sanchez, and borderline Logan Morrison. Two years ago Beinfest looked like an absolute genius when these guys came up and lit up the league. But now reality has set in with those guys.

I'm not talking out of frustration because of June. I'm talking about of frustration at how this core has gotten progressively worse since winning 87 games in 2009. Hanley becoming a shell of his former self didn't help, but doesn't that mean those teams were too dependent on one guy?

Beinfest is really good at going through scrap players, but that shouldn't be what saves his job. I sound like a broken record, but average GM/President/whatever is not going to cut it if this ownership is determined on becoming a more consistent playoff team. This is the longest playoff drought in franchise history and one of the five or six longest active streaks in the league. Not good pedigree for one the longest tenured GMs/Presidents in baseball not counting his days in Montreal. At some point, you have to say "okay you've done just enough to keep your job, but it's better if we just move on."
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To echo Omar's post, when you're organizational philosophy mirrors the 80s Royals and 80s Cardinals (fast, athletic, defense first, good starting pitching) and you have zero legitimate center fielders and a bunch of slow guys (save Stanton) to show for, there is a problem with your system.
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There is also not a successful business that looks back at their previous 9 years and says, "That could have been a lot worse." Only bad businesses that are in constant fear of failure and eventually do fail say that.

[Namaste]

But, Dan Uggla.

[HUGG]

Last Playoff Appearance

2011 - Arizona, Detroit, Milwaukee, NY Yankees, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Texas
2010 - Atlanta, Cincinnati, Minnesota, San Francisco
2009 - Boston, Colorado, LA Angels, LA Dodgers
2008 - Chi Cubs, Chi Sox
2007 - Cleveland
2006 - NY Mets, Oakland, San Diego
2005 - Houston
2003 - Miami
2001 - Seattle
1997 - Baltimore
1993 - Toronto
1992 - Pittsburgh
1985 - Kansas City
1981 - Washington

[Chewford]

That 2003 team had a whole lotta Dombrowski guys on it. A genuinely Beinfest-built team has never really made the playoffs.

[Todd]

I still hope the struggles this year from Morrison is an aberration. In 2010 he was a James Loney type who was an on base machine and actually led the team in triples. Last year he sacrificed his patience formore power.

Once he finds a happy medium between the two and settles into 1B hopefully he will be fine.

[Party]

That 2003 team had a whole lotta Dombrowski guys on it. A genuinely Beinfest-built team has never really made the playoffs.

Let's give him 3/4 credit for 2003. He made a couple good trades.

[tjfla]

I don't think its that he is a bad drafter. It is more of his philsophy,he prefers drafting arms(LH Arms) and guys that will sign for slot. The only problem is he passes on quality guys or BPA and takes guys then crosses his fingers