Larry Beinfest's Future with the Marlins

[Party]

I wouldn't mind replacing Beinfest with someone who is more of a sabermetrics guy.

To this day, I've never really seen a piece that detailed to what extent the newer analytics are being used by the FO. Samson partially mocked the idea a few years ago and described a big machine they put things into that spat out info.

At this point, any FO that hasn't embraced a hybrid system is at least five years behind other clubs.

[Ramp]

echoing Omar's thoughts; I would think if Beinfest was fired, that Mike Hill would be the successor

[Omar]

Which, of course, means this move is a lot easier than it would be for many teams. So Beinfest probably still has the trust of Loria.

[Party]

Ramp I know you kinda sorta(?) know Mike Hill. Do you know anything about his stance on sabermetrics or significant differences with Beinfest on players and player development?

[Ramp]

Ramp I know you kinda sorta(?) know Mike Hill. Do you know anything about his stance on sabermetrics or significant differences with Beinfest on players and player development?

I have 0 idea on his stance on saber and the like. I have a feeling that I wouldn't like his stance on things, but that's just a hunch from talking to him throughout the years. Could be nothing though.

[Party]

That's what's concerning about falling on Mike Hill. He has been part of the Beinfest system for so long. I'd rather look outside the organization and just clean house internally if Hill is similar to Beinfest.

[Jay]

That's what's concerning about falling on Mike Hill. He has been part of the Beinfest system for so long. I'd rather look outside the organization and just clean house internally if Hill is similar to Beinfest.

I think you replace Beinfest from outside and allow his replacement clean house.

[Swifty]

Bobbs, my crystal ball only saw a .088 OPS drop, so I guess I can't speak to the issue. I can't go back to the fact that even coming up as a prospect the T&B board was filled with Swift/Todd -v- lou/bobbob on Gaby. How I thought his minor league numbers screamed backup, at best, and not the arbitration schedule starter you saw him to be. I can't take credit for saying we should take ANY headache contract back for Buck in the offseason if we got salary eaten coming back.

I also don't see what makes me a "fatalistic" fan if I've been down on the organization since 2008 and, in that time, they haven't done a whole lot to say "hey, we win a shit ton of ballgames, get off our back." I think, for the most part, being a fatalistic fan is giving up hope when precedent implies, if not outright states, its short-sighted. Fatalistic would be saying season over for the Heat in the Indy series.

I also think it's funny how every time the Beinfest conversation starts up, the reaction is: it's an overreaction to a short skid. Here's the thing, it's a decade of skid. We've gone through the draft failures, the trade failures, but at this point, he'll have GM'd the three highest payrolls in Marlins history, and, barring a significant surge this year, will have failed to make the playoffs with any of them. His forays in free agency (though limited) are pretty disappointing.

I said earlier that, if Beinfest's job is in jeopardy, I'd rather the move be made before he has a chance to set us even further back as an organization. The draft has passed, but the deadline still looms.

[Mainge]

For fun, a career .400 OBP & nearly .900 career OPS screamed back up, at best, to you?

[Swifty]

Perpetually old for the level did.

Plus I think his splits were bad against RHP and he didn't hit for a lot of "power" just a lot of doubles. Which, if I recall, the positive argument was "it'll turn into homers" while me and Todd said that he wasn't going to add anything more given age and previous steroid usage.

I wish we still had T&B's archives on that debate.

[Bobbob1313]

I think it's pretty outrageous to entirely ignore Gaby's production over a two-year span (when he was pretty much exactly what lou and I said he would be) and then point to the first two months of this season and pound your chest about being right, but cool.

[Swifty]

But as for the team as a whole, I don't think anyone foresaw having, maybe, the worst 5-8 in history, but, at the same time, that doesn't forgive Beinfest. To me, the bigger issue isn't that the team is struggling at the major league level, that happens, not to this extent and not, for whatever reason, in June two seasons in a row, but it happens to the best of them. What the issue is is that there is no "shot in the arm" waiting in the minors. I realize Mike Trouts don't grow on trees (though we did pass on him in the draft) but the system is completely barren. Scott Cousins? I mean, from 2002-2007 we're basically going to have no impact bats (Logan pending, Stanton the exception) 2009 starts to look a little better, but even then the jury is still out since there's a whole lot that can happen between now and when most of the class does/should graduate.

I don't think you fire him because 2012 is a disappointment. I think you fire him because 2012 is a disappointment after 2004 and 2005 were disappointments and the drafts have been bad. If you can't trust him to build the team traditionally, or through free agency, what purpose does he serve?

[TheMendozaLine]

Fire Beinfest. Trade Wade. Profit.

[Mainge]

I think most people realized he was always going to be a guy without a ton of homeruns. No one thought those double were gon turn to HRs.

He was old for his level but not by much. A reason to give pause for sure, but nothing that screamed back up at best. That's silliness.

[Swifty]

I think it's pretty outrageous to entirely ignore Gaby's production over a two-year span (when he was pretty much exactly what lou and I said he would be) and then point to the first two months of this season and pound your chest about being right, but cool.

I think it's pretty egregious to ignore his second half numbers from last year and I think it's pretty egregious to think that a sub .800 OPS (which he's done even in that 2 year "exact" stretch) from a 1B is totally awesome.