Hanley Ramirez 2012: He Gone

[Namaste]

BigGameFish with the August self- burial POTM.

[MiamiHomer]

That's not Big Z.

[Mainge]

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

(see page 2)

ehe.

His stats are exactly the same.

[BigGameFish]

Posted elsewhere:

Hanley Ramirez:
with Dodgers: .317/.387/.476 (.863 OPS), 2 HR, 23 RBI in 82 ABs
with Marlins: .246/.322/.428 (.750 OPS), 14 HR, 48 RBI in 353 ABs

Pretty sure that OPS is over .900 now with a few more homeruns. And look at the RBI rate.

[Mainge]

Posted elsewhere:

Hanley Ramirez:
with Dodgers: .317/.387/.476 (.863 OPS), 2 HR, 23 RBI in 82 ABs
with Marlins: .246/.322/.428 (.750 OPS), 14 HR, 48 RBI in 353 ABs

Pretty sure that OPS is over .900 now with a few more homeruns. And look at the RBI rate.

When you posted "I told you so," that wasn't the case. The numbers were identical.

Plus, RBI's is meaningless. Don't cite them please.

[Mainge]

They are for this discussion.

[CrimsonCane]

I don't think RBI's are meaningless.

Runs are not meaningless to measure team offense.
RBIs are meaningless to measure individual performance.

[emkayseven]

not really, since a large amount of the criticism was about his hitting with RISP which leads to RBI. And he's hitting like .500 with the Dodgers with RISP
--------------------

One of the Dodgers at the center of Hanley Ramirez's transition to the team is coach Manny Mota.

Ramirez, acquired three weeks ago from Miami after his relationship with the Marlins soured, batted .395 with 14 runs batted in during the Dodgers' trip that ended Sunday, and he gave much of the credit to Mota for boosting his confidence.

Mota, 74, said he and Ramirez "talk every day" about multiple topics, including that Ramirez "doesn't need to carry this team on his shoulders. We've got Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, and he's just doing his part."

Ramirez and Mota also study video of Ramirez's at-bats in 2009, when Ramirez won the National League batting title, and compare them with his swing today to make adjustments.

Mota said he also talks to Ramirez about being a Dodger.

"I explained to him about this organization and its great history, winning tradition," Mota said. "He told me he's very proud and pleased and happy to wear the Dodger uniform."

Mota said he's known Ramirez, 28, since watching Ramirez play as a youngster in the Dominican Republic and that "he still hasn't reached his potential. He's still learning how to play the game and he's still maturing, as a man, as a player."

As for Ramirez's troubled history with the Marlins, Mota said, "The first thing I told him when he got here was, whatever happened in the past is already gone. When he joined this team, it's like a new beginning for him."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseba...,3973400.story

Imagine if we had a decent hitting coach
--------------------
also, I should say that I'm just trolling at this point with regards to hating on Eduardo

[CrimsonCane]

not really, since a large amount of the criticism was about his hitting with RISP which leads to RBI. And he's hitting like .500 with the Dodgers with RISP

That was a large amount of very bad criticism.

[Namaste]

Manny Mota is a class act. My Dad is a HUGH Manny Mota fan (we lived in LA in the late 70's, boys).

[Mainge]

You take a different approach with RISP, hence RBI is not a completely meaningless stat. Shitty RBI numbers may reflect shitty situational hitting, inability to adapt/adjust.
--------------------
Oh daft, you so old! We weren't even a sparkle in our daddies eye in the late 70's.

Sometimes you do. RBIs are still meaningless in this discussion.

[Mainge]

It is in this discussion. He wasn't hitting well here so he didn't well with RISP, not vica verca. Also I remember him moving in the order and he didn't struggle until ~10 games after the move.

Correlation =\= Causation.

[Mainge]

The point was, if the move from 1st to 3rd caused him to struggle, why did it take so long to manifest itself?

Hint:

  Spoiler:

It didn't cause him to struggle

[Party]

It's pretty dumb to say the shift from being a lead-off hitter to a middle of the order hitter had no effect on Hanley and a 10 game period is proof of this not manifesting itself. On the contrary, I would argue it probably did. Hanley went from batting lead-off to 'the guy'. As to how much it played a role in his decline here is up for debate and only Hanley knows the truth. He went from being the lead-off hitter in a good line-up to 'the Guy' in an increasingly mediocre line-up.

That is part of the enigma that was Hanley Ramirez. Players themselves talk about the different approaches they take depending on where they hit in the line-up. It's not crazy to assume his entire mental approach to baseball changed as his role was defined. (We see it all the time in real life, and often times people don't succeed in adjusting.) This is something we won't ever hear about unless he comes out. I wouldn't be surprised if he buckled under the pressure of being 'the Guy' to some extent. Hanley always struck me as the type of person who is really really high when things are going well but completely crashes and shuts down when shit hits the fan. This is all pure speculation, but it's the vibe he gave off.

[Mainge]

It's pretty dumb to say the shift from being a lead-off hitter to a middle of the order hitter had no effect on Hanley and a 10 game period is proof of this not manifesting itself. On the contrary, I would argue it probably did. Hanley went from batting lead-off to 'the guy'. As to how much it played a role in his decline here is up for debate and only Hanley knows the truth. He went from being the lead-off hitter in a good line-up to 'the Guy' in an increasingly mediocre line-up.

Am I missing something here or did Hanley bat third all for of 2009 and '10 while being completely awesome?

Batting third had zero effect on him. It's not dumb, it's absolute fact.