Offseason Shopping (Seemingly) Over: So, Was It Good For You?

[Swifty]

Sort of piggy-backing on Juanky's comments (which, I agree with, more or less) following the Cespedes signing: is succeeding early and failing late a problem for the franchise? Does this do more to fuel the anti-Marlin skepticism that will seemingly never leave the media down here? Was it all an elaborate ruse?

In all seriousness, though, I got into a twitter discussion with Glenn Geffner (yes, I hate myself right now too) but, anyway, the sentiment seems to be, since I assume he's at least somewhat a mouthpiece of the organization, that the team did all it could do and silly fans for believing they were ever a front runner. That kind of spin control, to me, suggests a few things: (1) we're still the little kid sitting at the big-boy table. We're talking about spin control for a dude who may or may not be good and who almost certainly isn't worth the fuss being made over him. And (2) as much as it pains me to admit it, the Dolphins, for all their short comings, are probably doing something right with this veil of secrecy/inaccessibility rather than constantly allowing a microphone to be stuck in an overwhelmed (and perhaps under qualified) executive's face.

So, to spur some new conversation (since there's plenty here to have one sentence snipes on) did the Marlins make a mistake by maintaining public interest, or was there so much good done that it didn't matter?

[Namaste]

Completely agree with your point about the way the Dolphins go about their business.

Most casual Marlins fans I know don't believe the Marlins have any shot to make the playoffs and signing a Cuban guy who isn't remotely a household name would not have changed that.

The average casual fan thinks this, "they didn't sign Pujols so the stadium will be empty".

As much as the Sun Sentinel (ehe) tried to be all gloom and doom about Cespedes not coming here, I don't think anyone will give a shit on April 4th.

[Chewford]

Reyes was an absolutely huge, franchise changing acquisition. Buehrle and Bell will both rock solid methinks. This should a darn good team assuming JJ stays healthy (that’s a monumental if).

As for what we didn’t get, in the end it’s probably for the best they didn’t mortage the entire future of the franchise to get Pujols. Also, Cespesdes certainly isn't worth the ludicrous amount the A’s are going to pay him. CJ Wilson was the only legitimate disappointment for me, but you can’t fault the Marlins for that one.

[Namaste]

The ONLY thing that will put out the anti-Marlin skepticism media fire will be an NLCS or World Series victory followed by no "fire sale" the following year.

It will take that much.

[Swifty]

I definitely get the feeling that there will be, at least until the season starts and we see how good this team is, a very skeptical group that points to Pujols and Cespedes and just says "same old Marlins."

[Mainge]

I don't really see the downside really, at least in the short-term. This was a pep rally of sorts, and I believe it worked. We banged our drums, sounded the trumpets, sold tickets and backed it up with a pretty incredible off season. If the goal was to make noise and generate interest, it worked. I mean, we're getting our own fucking TV show. The Marlins, in the same professional league as the Yankees/Red Sox/Cubs/Tigers/Dodgers/Cardinals etc, are the subject of a nationally televised MLB interest show.

I'm really not sure what you're implying or asking. Are you questioning whether the Marlins should announce their offseason intentions/plans publicly?

[Namaste]

He means should the Marlins allow Samson to basically say "CESPEDES IS A LOCK" to the media.

[Swifty]

Yeah, CJ is in his own category. We made it clear that we would not be outbid. That one stings because in an offseason where we banked on the home-town advantage, we got burned by it. Plus, CJ probably makes us the NL favorite unconditionally. It would have been a silly contract though and ultimately I think it's good we were saved from ourselves.

Pujols is also kind of in his own category because Nightengale and ESPN the Magazine both had us as the high-bidder for him, just without the NTC. Can't really blame the Marlins there either. The contract that was allegedly offered to him was in itself a no-trade clause. He signs it and he's basically saying he would only play for 3 or 4 teams anyway.

My question is more on Cespedes, I guess. Does the ending (and make no mistake I'm glad we didn't get him, but the way it ended was definitely ehe worthy) overshadow the beginning? Does walking around with chests puffed out and then doing the Charlie Brown walk just get overlooked?
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Also, Mainge, great point on the show....we supposedly had Showtime cameras follow around our courtship of him. Definitely ehe worthy.

[Omar]

I think that we've had an amazing offseason. We brought in three all stars, traded for a ridiculously talented pitcher, and got Showtime to pay attention. The national media has taken notice, even down to Reyes' hair being cut on national TV.

I do, however, think that some out there will disappointed that we struck out on the last four (including not going after Prince). My point here is simply that if, say, the Buerhle signing would have come after striking out on Pujols, it wouldn't be there. It's not a big deal, but it feeds into our negative sentiment in Miami.

The answer probably would be to enclose Dave Samson in a building where he can't speak to the media.

[HUGG]

The national media has taken notice, even down to Reyes' hair being cut on national TV.

We're on ESPN for the season opener and ESPN2 the next day.

Giving us more ESPN national games in the first 2 days of the season than we had in 2011.
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Marlins-Red Sox on March 12 is also ESPN's first baseball broadcast of the year.


They added 3 All-Stars and went from being an afterthought to a national entity. Pretty ridiculous to call this off-season anything other than a success.

[Beef]

I don't think they made a mistake. Perhaps things could have been handled better, but I doubt those things even work to make a difference in perception of the club. Swift mentioned that CJ and Pujols were in their own special categories. The media made all sorts tweets and comments about what the Marlins were doing and that they were dominating the bidding for those guys. The Marlins, as far as we know, weren't fueling those reports by telling the media those things. People just reported what they wanted to report and/or what they suspected was the case, that's sports reporting these days.

Samson made a comment or two about Cespedes so that wasn't the best, but I don't think it matters. The Marlins were interested, no matter what he said, people would have the Marlins as the favorites for him because there are Cubans here and Cuba isn't far away. In the end, those that are disappointed that the Marlins didn't get him would be disappointed and find their ways to say "same old Marlins" no matter how it went down. There isn't a great deal of calm and reason among sports fans. I don't trust that they would have said something like, "well, it would have been nice but it didn't work out - it's likely better for us anyway and the organization never promised us anything" if Samson never made his comment(s). The sentiment would still be that they had their chance for a Cuban sensation and lost out to the A's, what a bunch of losers.

Also, as a result of what I mentioned with Cespedes and with the way the sports media works, the Marlins didn't have too much of a choice about maintaining public interest throughout the offseason. They began the offseason by making a few big signings in a way they have never done before. They were the big story of the winter meetings. After that, when other names came up, they were bound to be considered options and would stay in the media as a result. They couldn't just send a memo to the media asking that they be dismissed from all future speculation for the remainder of the offseason. Anyway, I don't think this has "fueled" any more skepticism about the organization. People think what they will think and I doubt that the way things worked out with Cespedes fueled anything with at least a majority of the media. They made it clear that they wanted him and lost out to another team that offered a very large sum of money to a very unproven guy. When it comes to people thinking it was a ruse, having the Showtime cameras around might actually make things less ehe worthy. For those that don't believe the Marlins were legitimately interested, they will be able to see that the Marlins had him in town and treated him well for the day and that they did what they could. Those fans might not understand that not offering him a giant contract was simply responsible, but that's just how people are. Can't please em all. Those people will post negative things in the comments section of the Sun Sentinel no matter the result.

Anyway, they did alright and there was nothing that they could do about their misses being so public. It came with the territory/spotlight. That spotlight was made somewhat brighter by the fact that people were surprised that the Marlins were doing what the Marlins were doing. It wasn't their fault that those "failures" were so public.

I just don't understand the sentiment or potential sentiment or poll answer that making their interest in players public undermined things. Regardless of Samson's comments, the public interest would have existed after the winter meetings and regardless of those comments the media would have seen the Marlins walking to the Pujols room during the meetings and made their interest very public. The publicity was mostly created by being active in the market and would have existed with or without those comments, not so much from seeking the public interest and by telling all who would listen that they were interested. I'm confident that they plenty of articles or tweets would have made the Marlins interest plenty public if Samson doesn't do the work himself.

[Bucklin12]

We need an option for "Fucking Super Fun".

This was the most entertaining off-season I can remember in a long time. And outside of that, these were really solid baseball moves that will transfer into wins. And outside of that, the contracts we took on are workable.

I mean, holy shit; the Stadium, Guillen, Reyes, Buerhle, Bell, Pujolspalooza, Showtime show. I don't want to say it was a perfect off-season, because there were some mishaps, but the on-field product and the entertainment quality of the franchise hugely improved. And the money is manageable enough to induce future moves. That's a pretty fucking great offseason.

[Jorge18]

I can't even believe that this is actually a question. To look back on that off-season and think it was anything less than a major success is crazy talk. I think this is the "give someone a finger and they take the whole arm" type of situation.

The Pujols situation was kind of disappointing but in the end I think it worked towards our favor. Signing a player of that age to a 10 year contract never works out (see: Aroid). But it makes a little more sense in the AL since he can at least DH in the latter part of his career.

Regarding Cespedes, Samson said blatenly that they will persue him to the point of stupidity. I think $9m AAV for a player with 0 major/minor league is experience is stupid. But hey, he could come out and being a fucking stud, and then we'll look stupid. This signing can go down in two ways; 1- "OMG! Billy Beane is the best GM evvvaaaarrrr" 2-"OMG! Samson is the smartest presidant evvvaaaarrrr becuz he didn't sign the Cuban."

In the end, players don't make fans come out to the stadium, winning does. As a fan of this franchise since its inception all I care about is that they are competitive. I've said it over and over again, being a fan of the Marlins is not easy, but I'm 100% satisfied with what they have done this offseason.

[TheMendozaLine]

I have no complaints. None. This offseason ended up being about 10x better than I had anticipated.

[lou]

If I am doing rough math

minus Dobbs/Cameron (1.8 WAR) as the defacto "3B starter" (Bonifacio shifting spots as for Cameron) and replacing them with a likely 5+ WAR Jose Reyes. Let's say up 3.5
Adding Buerhle, losing Vazquez. Push
Adding Bell, who cumulatively sets off a trickle down to the pen for a likely 2+ WAR growth
Zambrano over Volstad, probably another 1 win
Moving Hanley defensively off SS to 3B 1 win. I think this counts here. His 'bat' improvement would fall into 'team should be better.'

They probably added 7-8 wins to the team through pure shopping which is pretty strong. If they can get another 10 wins from Hanley and Johnson not being jackasses/hurt and progression from Stanton, Morrison, and Nolasco, I like their chances. There is just no room for error. I'd say the offseason is a B+ just because the severe backloading of Reyes/Buerhle is scary, but I don't mind the annual numbers if the franchise is going to operate at this payroll level. They did a real nice job, and presumably have money to go and get someone in June/July if there is a problem. And that's not including Ozzie, stadium, that hr obelisk, showtime, over aggressiveness with CJ and Pujols, etc which are all fun in there own way.