Marlins Lose Game One of Night-Night Double Header; Fall to 11 Under

[geemoney]

I really could care less about this horrible month if it was just the garbage players playing like garbage. However, it seems like all of our young position players have regressed (or maybe they weren't as good as initially thought, to begin with).

[Bobbob1313]

Wait, we're giving up on Lomo and Gaby now?

[Mainge]

They're done, sorry.

[Bobbob1313]

Are we talking about the same Logan Morrison and Gaby Sanchez who are currently on pace to be 2.5 and 5 Win players over a full season?

The same Logan Morrison who is 24 has like 400 big league plate appearances? We're giving up on that guy?
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Is Logan Morrison fully developed? I didn't realize players stop progressing in their 5th month in the big leagues. My bad.
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How is this not a reaction to a bad month?

Like, fine, Hanley looks like he sucks now, and that's really crappy and totally fucking inexplicable. Logan Morrison is 24 years old and totally cost controlled. We have that guy until he turns 29 or something. Selling him now is the biggest kneejerk crap reaction ever.

Jesus christ.

I don't seem to remember you advocating trading Morrison in May 18, so, yeah, this is 100% the result of a shitty month.

[Erick]

Are we talking about the same Logan Morrison and Gaby Sanchez who are currently on pace to be 2.5 and 5 Win players over a full season?

The same Logan Morrison who is 24 has like 400 big league plate appearances? We're giving up on that guy?
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Is Logan Morrison fully developed? I didn't realize players stop progressing in their 5th month in the big leagues. My bad.
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How is this not a reaction to a bad month?

Like, fine, Hanley looks like he sucks now, and that's really crappy and totally fucking inexplicable. Logan Morrison is 24 years old and totally cost controlled. We have that guy until he turns 29 or something. Selling him now is the biggest kneejerk crap reaction ever.

Jesus christ.

I don't seem to remember you advocating trading Morrison in May 18, so, yeah, this is 100% the result of a shitty month.

You, yourself, said the other day that the funny thing is that LoMo's #'s are basically what was expected of him now.

So I guess we'll take this this year, but what are you expecting LoMo's bat to become? Not really spreading my opinion here, just looking for yours.

All I'm saying is that a low .800 .OPS bat with subpar defense from LF isn't difficult at all to replace.

It's obvious that he can get on-base at a great clip, but it's still unknown whether or not his power is legit.
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Let's say we decide to move some of our younger guys. Who do you think we can get for Logan? Most teams aren't giving up a 23 year old stud arm for a 23 year old very good bat.

Besides that, you better not be giving up Logan for someone who is in AA/AAA. And yea, you suggest that Logan or Gaby is replaceable but if we trade those guys (who are making the league minimum), does it make sense to then have to shell out $4mil for replacements?

Even if you don't say it, this one bad month is certainly clouding your judgement.

The A's desperately need a bat in their lineup.

Considering Gio's emergence this year, Cahill still pitching well, etc. they have a good young rotation.

Brett Anderson seems to have some injury issues, but he's a good young lefty.

Can't Brett Anderson be a possibility? Either way, there have to be some pitchers out there who make some sense. My point is that the Marlins should at least consider what these guys are worth through trade.

The only guy on this roster right now who's extremely valuable/should not be traded under any circumstance is Mike Stanton. The rest, while being quality baseball players, are all replaceable pending you get solid value that can potentially improve the team.

[Bobbob1313]

You, yourself, said the other day that the funny thing is that LoMo's #'s are basically what was expected of him now.

So I guess we'll take this this year, but what are you expecting LoMo's bat to become? Not really spreading my opinion here, just looking for yours.

All I'm saying is that a low .800 .OPS bat with subpar defense from LF isn't difficult at all to replace.

It's obvious that he can get on-base at a great clip, but it's still unknown whether or not his power is legit.

Generally speaking, players do not peak at 24. Gaby Sanchez has had a legitimate and seemingly sustainable power spike and improvement in both K and BB rates in his second year in the majors. A similar improvement can be expected for Morrison for many years to come. To imply he's even close to his peak is super silly.

[Erick]

Ok, fine.

Another question.

Everyone says we need a starter - preferably a left-handed starter.

How do we go about getting that starter without trading one of our players? The list of free agent pitchers this upcoming offseason is garbage.

[Jay]

I'm actually not opposed to trading gaby over the offseason to be honest. He's right in his prime now but it all depends on what you get in return and that you can sign a good 1b or lf. Its all about doing what is best for the team. I would keep Logan over Gaby because I believe he has more potential and would be the better long term fit for the team.

Also Hanley really should be moved maybe to cf come next year and replaced with a good defender.

[Erick]

I'm actually not opposed to trading gaby over the offseason to be honest. He's right in his prime now but it all depends on what you get in return and that you can sign a good 1b or lf. Its all about doing what is best for the team. I would keep Logan over Gaby because I believe he has more potential and would be the better long term fit for the team.

Also Hanley really should be moved maybe to cf come next year and replaced with a good defender.

Aside from the Hanley to CF thing,

The top paragraph was basically my point. I think it's a lot easier to get value out of 1B/LF somehow than to get good pitching. This organization has no starting pitching depth. The struggles of the lineup, as a whole, have to be somewhat of an aberration.

The pitching staff, however, isn't that great. And it's going to be difficult to acquire a good starting pitcher in free agency.

[lou]

Ok, fine.

Another question.

Everyone says we need a starter - preferably a left-handed starter.

How do we go about getting that starter without trading one of our players? The list of free agent pitchers this upcoming offseason is garbage.

So why not find a team rebuilding and probably not a contender and try to pawn off Chad James, Brad Hand, Sean West, and whoever else. We have a rock solid 1-2-3, the Marlins can afford to move those guys if we lock in a 4th young guy for years. And there is salary flexibility here to take stuff on. There is value with those guys. Maybe not future # 2 starter value, but John Danks/Ted Lilly value if you include all of them and that could be an appealing swap for someone. I don't want to get into hypotheticals, but the Marlins could put together a nice 3-1 minor league pitcher swap for someone like that. The farm isn't that barren.

And I don't need to quote it, but everything bob said about Morrison and Gaby. Knee jerk. Absolutely can't move those guys. That's the future. Logan hits free agency after 2016. wtf. I'll take that 2+ WAR player anyday.

[Jay]

So you like Hanley's defense at short? Maybe center isn't the answer but he moving to 2nd and c are out of the question, 3rd would block doming who is suppose to be an excellent defender and 1st has gaby and logan blocking him; that only leaves the outfield.

I would love to see a 3rd or 4th starter and good defenders at 2nd and ss. Oh and some depth but that need shouldn't be mentioned. Oh and a 3 year deal for Sanchez. I've been a Sanchez fan since the Beckett trade so I may be biased with that one.
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Lou is right the farm isn't barren and it may actually start looking decent again at the end of the season as everyone progressed through the system. The lower levels has some potential.

[Erick]

So why not find a team rebuilding and probably not a contender and try to pawn off Chad James, Brad Hand, Sean West, and whoever else. We have a rock solid 1-2-3, the Marlins can afford to move those guys if we lock in a 4th young guy for years. And there is salary flexibility here to take stuff on. There is value with those guys. Maybe not future # 2 starter value, but John Danks/Ted Lilly value if you include all of them and that could be an appealing swap for someone. I don't want to get into hypotheticals, but the Marlins could put together a nice 3-1 minor league pitcher swap for someone like that. The farm isn't that barren.

And I don't need to quote it, but everything bob said about Morrison and Gaby. Knee jerk. Absolutely can't move those guys. That's the future. Logan hits free agency after 2016. wtf. I'll take that 2+ WAR player anyday.

I think you're overrating the value of the pitchers you mentioned.

James and Hand aren't really near big league ready, and they're not exactly can't miss prospects either.

Sean West? Really? Why would any team give up anything for Sean West, at this point?

Plus, I'd like someone who's better than a Ted Lilly type. He makes Ricky Nolasco look like a groundball pitcher.
Lilly would probably be another Vazquez. He gives up a ton of HR's and he's probably regressing, evidenced by his declining K rate.
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So you like Hanley's defense at short? Maybe center isn't the answer but he moving to 2nd and c are out of the question, 3rd would block doming who is suppose to be an excellent defender and 1st has gaby and logan blocking him; that only leaves the outfield.

I would love to see a 3rd or 4th starter and good defenders at 2nd and ss. Oh and some depth but that need shouldn't be mentioned. Oh and a 3 year deal for Sanchez. I've been a Sanchez fan since the Beckett trade so I may be biased with that one.
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Lou is right the farm isn't barren and it may actually start looking decent again at the end of the season as everyone progressed through the system. The lower levels has some potential.

The move would just create a hole at SS. It's not easy to find a good SS. Plus, I'm not sure if I'd want the guy who always has his effort questioned playing in CF. God forbid he starts lollygagging to balls in CF; at least when he fucks up at SS, they're not extra-base hits.

[AdamRavs]

Sean West is a lefty pitcher and lefties take longer to mature. They are also harder to come by so teams are more likely to take a chance on him. IE: Andrew Miller.

[Erick]

Sean West is a lefty pitcher and lefties take longer to mature. They are also harder to come by so teams are more likely to take a chance on him. IE: Andrew Miller.

IE: We got Dustin Richardson in return for Andrew Miller.

Sean West has little to no value at this point.
He's been a bust everytime he's gotten to the big leagues, and he's now reached a low point in his career in the minor leagues. He's having an absolutely attrocious year to the point of having more walks than strikeouts this year. He has a 1.93 WHIP in AAA; he is attrocious.