Marlins Tie Franchise Record With 11th Loss In A Row In Another 1 Run Defeat

[Erick]

Erick you are straight-up trippin bruh.

Why?

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

How did the game go? I wasn't able to watch it. Did Jack fall asleep?

Exact same script as yesterday: starter gives up 1 run in seven innings, game stays tied at 1 into the 8th, bullpen gives up 1 run, Marlins lose.

[Miamarlin21]

Because Mujica and Webb have been a lot better than what we had last year. Yea, they are struggling right now, which probably, to you, negates what they've done all season. But in all, they've done well. Infante has not been that top-of-the-order guy we wanted, but he's been giving us amazing defense at second, something we've been lacking since 2006. Despite his bad hitting, he is still hitting better than Uggla and his five year contract. Dunn was lights out at the beginning of the season but has struggled lately--as has everyone. Cogs was not the first choice in center, but he's done a lot, A LOT better than all of us thought he would. He has probably been playing hurt, which may or may not have contributed to his bad bat. In all, yes we've had a really good off-season and the guys we got in have been doing well than what we gave up.

[Swifty]

Webb alone is better than Maybin. That's a dynamite arm.

Also, this is depressing. It's fascinating, but it's also depressing.

[emkayseven]

Erick is probably using WAR to determine that Maybin is more valuable than Webb and Mujica. This is troubling because WAR does not treat relievers well at all.

[Erick]

Erick is probably using WAR to determine that Maybin is more valuable than Webb and Mujica. This is troubling because WAR does not treat relievers well at all.

I'm also using the fact that even if you evaluate Webb/Mujica as relievers, they're just relievers who are pretty easy to replace.

Mujica's been the better reliever. Mujica's also been used in long relief to eat up innings more often than not. Those are cool to have, but it's not as if Mujica is some really valuable late-inning reliever. Heck, Mujica might not even be here next year, for all we know.

Webb was the bigger piece in the deal, and he's been very whatever. If the Marlins had known that Steve Cishek was gonna pitch like he has, they probably never would've wasted their time with this deal.

Even if you want to use WPA (which is apparently a better statistic for relievers), Webb is just at .11.

He's a replaceable middle reliever. Gets a lot of groundballs, but will never dominate because he doesn't strike hitters out. His BB/9 has also regressed to the tune of 3.48 this year which is not good, especially for a pitcher who pitches to contact.
He has a mediocre 1.37 WHIP.
He was also attrocious earlier in the year when he was being used more in inherited runners situations (situations that valuable relievers get out of a lot more often than he did).


As for Dunn, spin it anyway you want; he's been bad. You can't just evaluate his nice moments, and say "you're just looking at his bad moments. His bad moments are acceptable because the whole team has had bad moments."

Dunn's not even worth explaining because his production has actually hurt this team. If Dunn's name was Renyel Pinto, everyone would be hating on him right now.

[Miamarlin21]

I think that Webb will be the better reliever.

And everything else is not even worth explaining because your production has actually hurt this forum.

[Erick]

Webb alone is better than Maybin. That's a dynamite arm.

What makes him "dynamite?"

Anyone who's not a homer Marlins fan would tell you that this deal is not working out in the Marlins favor. Fangraphs has already released a couple of articles asking why the Marlins even made the deal, considering they had little reason to trade Maybin from a financial standpoint, as well.

There's no way that Ryan Webb is more valuable than Cameron Maybin, regardless of which stat you're using.

The deal would look okay if Chris Coghlan was playing well, but instead Coghlan is pulling a Maybin and probably isn't worthy of being in the big leagues, at this point.
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I think that Webb will be the better reliever.

And everything else is not even worth explaining because your production has actually hurt this forum.

Well, you certainly won the argument with that.

[Omar]

The deal would look okay if Chris Coghlan was playing well, but instead Coghlan is pulling a Maybin and probably isn't worthy of being in the big leagues, at this point.

You know you're attacking a deal, in part, by mentioning the name of the player dealt as a verb for sucking, right?

[Erick]

You know you're attacking a deal, in part, by mentioning the name of the player dealt as a verb for sucking, right?

I said that because Maybin had his inconsistencies with us.
That still doesn't take away from the fact that he was still a 24-year old CF'er with upside. Those are always more valuable than a couple of middle relievers.

And for what it's worth, I liked Webb & Mujica. I'm not criticizing the front office for taking a risk.

I'm just saying that the deal hasn't really worked out, as some people apparently seem to think it has.

Considering the fact that this trade has received more criticism than applause from the minute it was made, I'm sure Loria is rather disappointed with the deal after the results.

It's really not one of those deals where you can say: "Ah well, hindsight is 20/20."

[Miamarlin21]

You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right?
You first said that Webb and Mujica are bad. Then you brought in Cogs to the equation. Then, in the same post that "those (Maybins) are always more valuable than a couple of middle relievers....I liked Webb & Mujica. I'm not criticizing the front office for taking a risk."

Yea, you are lol

[Todd]

Maybin's upside has amounted to absolutely nothing in his major league career. He has got chance after chance, been called up sent down, a neverending viscous cycle. The only thing he has ever shown with any amount of consistency is that major league pitching befuddles him. Might he get better? Yes. I personally blame Detroit and their penchant for nonsensically rushing prospects.

[Erick]

You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right?
You first said that Webb and Mujica are bad. Then you brought in Cogs to the equation. Then, in the same post that "those (Maybins) are always more valuable than a couple of middle relievers....I liked Webb & Mujica. I'm not criticizing the front office for taking a risk."

Yea, you are lol

I didn't mind it because the bullpen was a weakness last year, and (as a fan) I appreciated the front office's efforts to try to improve it.

With that said, Maybin had plenty of upside and it was a move that many criticized at the time it was made.

Normally, 23/24 year old CF'ers with "5 tools" aren't traded for two middle relievers.

While I think Webb and Mujica are good pitchers, middle relievers like that are basically the easiest holes to fill at the end of the day.
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Maybin's upside has amounted to absolutely nothing in his major league career. He has got chance after chance, been called up sent down, a neverending viscous cycle. The only thing he has ever shown with any amount of consistency is that major league pitching befuddles him. Might he get better? Yes. I personally blame Detroit and their penchant for nonsensically rushing prospects.

Maybin is having a solid season this year.

[Todd]

I didn't mind it because the bullpen was a great weakness last year, and (as a fan) I appreciated the front office's efforts to try to improve it.

With that said, Maybin had plenty of upside and it was a move that many criticized at the time it was made.

Normally, 23/24 year old CF'ers with "5 tools" aren't traded for two middle relievers.

While I think Webb and Mujica are good pitchers, middle relievers like that are basically the easiest holes to fill at the end of the day.

Maybin's trade value was nonexistent. The fact that they got Webb and Mujica for him was a pleasant surprise.
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Maybin is having a solid season this year.

Maybin is hitting .249/.310/.396.


Yes, you are so ridiculous you made me use an emoticon.

[Erick]

Maybin's trade value was nonexistent. The fact that they got Webb and Mujica for him was a pleasant surprise.
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Maybin is hitting .249/.310/.396.


Yes, you are so ridiculous you made me use an emoticon.

Maybin's trade value was so nonexistent that multiple teams were interested in him.

Also, you can erase your facepalm because all you did was poorly evaluate a player's stats.

-He's been very good, defensively.
-He plays half his games at Petco Park; a park that makes every hitter look worse than they really are. If you look at his splits, he's actually hit the ball very well away from home.

The Padres, as a team, have an .OPS below .600 at home. No one can hit there.