Marlins Trade Deadline Thread: Comes And Goes Without A Move

[Big Z]

You don't trade Ceda. He's making nothing and his plans are to be closer here sooner than later.

You only trade Ceda if he's the missing piece should we go after a Jose Reyes (not at all suggesting we are doing anything of the sort)

Very true.

Can't wait for talks to heat up within the next week.

[Valid]

Again, Anibal is not borderline elite. We as baseball fans need to change our way of thinking in this era of poor offense. Even after last night's solid game his ERA+ is 110. That's very good, but not close to "borderline elite" - for comparison's sake, JJ led the league last year with a 180 and this year before his injury he was at 239 (!). This year's leaderboard, just to show you how far back Anibal is:

1.	Jurrjens (ATL)	205
2.	Weaver (LAA)	199
3.	Beckett (BOS)	178
4.	Verlander (DET)	176
5.	Vogelsong (SFG)	170
6.	Hamels (PHI)	165
7.	Gonzalez (OAK)	158
8.	Hanson (ATL)	157
9.	Halladay (PHI)	156
10.	Shields (TBR)	153

So we have that. He's not borderline elite but he is very solid middle of the rotation/borderline every-now-and-then All Star material.

There is the question of durability:


http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nibal-sanchez/

As well you know a 4.57 ERA is not good at all nowadays. That's a bit alarming given the injury history. Frontline starters should be able to go on short rest, definitely on regular rest. Anibal is thriving on extra rest.

And then there's the money factor. No, money will not be as large of a factor as it has been in the past. But, like it is for all teams, it is still a factor. Time after time long term pitching contracts have proven to be risky, and at this point with Anibal we are not getting a discount. He hasn't had a good relationship with the FO in the past and we are buying out only 1 arbitration year which isn't very attractive from a player's standpoint.

Finally, you have to weigh the importance of pitching vs. offense. Yes, pitching wins ballgames, but in reality you are getting 35 games - at most, especially given Anibal's tendency to need extra rest - of solid but not spectacular pitching. With a hitter you are getting 150 games. When you talk about Rasmus he's a guy that:

A) Has proven he can hit at the MLB level;
B) Is still young and has much more room for improvement;
C) Is cost controlled for longer than Anibal and allows us to invest money in another position or back into the rotation;
D) Is at a tremendous position of need within the organization, one where we've failed to get production for years and years and have no upcoming prospects at

As I said earlier in the thread Rasmus's OPS+ shows that he is as much above an average hitter as Anibal's ERA+ shows he is above an average pitcher. If you can get Colby Rasmus in a deal including Anibal Sanchez, you do it.

There is no reason to trade Anibal for prospects and if you look at the rumors swirling around no one has been suggesting that. It is for major league talent, which this team desperately needs. Yes, our starting pitching is weak and thin, but in an era where guys like Ryan Vogelsong and Paul Maholm are All Stars and guys like Hanley Ramirez and Albert Pujols hit well below their career averages, you make the trade every time.

While all of that may be true, I just don't like the idea of trading any one of our top three pitchers. Good hitting is much easier to find than good pitching, and because of that, I think this team should be built around the trio of Johnson, Sanchez, and Nolasco.

As long as our offense is passable (and with the likes of Hanley, Stanton, Morrison, and Gaby in the middle of our order for the future, it should be that and more), we should be able to contend every year with that starting rotation. I don't see any reason why we should mess with it.

Obviously I am not taking Anibal's health risks into account in all of this, though.

[emkayseven]

Well don't you have to take the health risks into account? This isn't MLB 2k12.

And you have to take money into account as well.

And no, good hitting is not easier to find than good pitching. Not anymore. That's what I mean when I say we need to change the way we think. Look at the hitters who made the all star game. Look at the pitchers who DIDN'T make it. Big difference.

[MiamiHomer]

Some info concerning this discussion.

JoeFrisaro Joe Frisaro
#Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria says team needs established third baseman, more starting pitching. Meaning Ricky and Anibal not trade bait.

[Ralph]

Cool. Then trade for David Wright

[MiamiHomer]

I just find it hard to think that the FO would risk signing Anibal to an extension after his extensive injury history and looking at what's happening with JJ right now. If you can get an everyday bat for him then it might not be a bad route with his value as high as it is right now.

[LocoMarlinFan]

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Unlikely #Marlins will move Choate. Signed for $1.5M in 12. LHHs 5-for-52 with 1 BB against him. He is so cheap, what would be point?

http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal

[Big Z]

Who's out there that we can possibly go after, who's an established 3rd basemen? Do we need another SP? We have Johnson, Nolly, Sanchy, Javy, Volstad and Hensley.

Maybe he's talking about next year?

[lou]

Some info concerning this discussion.

JoeFrisaro Joe Frisaro
#Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria says team needs established third baseman, more starting pitching. Meaning Ricky and Anibal not trade bait.

I'm fine with that if they can get Anibal on say a 3/$30 deal (8-10-12), with a vesting player option of year 4 for $14 million if he pitches 200 innings prior year or 360 prior two years sort of thing. Really can't lowball him beyond trying to unguarantee year 4. They just need to lock him in if that decision is made to keep him versus a big trade, and that's a respectable deal, even if it's another million on each one of those years.

As for 3B, they don't exactly grow on trees. There are really none available anywhere, unless you include Aramis or Betemit and I'm not sure you want to lock into those guys for 2-4 years in free agency. Wright is an injury disaster I would shy away from. Dominguez has a shot to be as good as half the league overnight next year, let alone moving forward if he starts hitting 15-20 out. Going to have to improve elsewhere.

How about you just put Coghlan, Dominguez, and Bonifacio (2B) in the lineup, and then buy 4 premium veteran bench players for next year that can actually play. That is going to make an enormous impact as all the kids are still learning to play, and we'd actually get a HR here or there off the bench. Then sign CJ Wilson/Mark Buerhle to get a lefty and make a decision if Volstad is as good as a bet than everyone else in the sub $ 3million dollar price range in free agency. Keep it simple. Let Ozzie Guillen go nuts on the twitter. Buy out Stantons arbitration.

[Erick]

ERA+ only focuses on this year's results.

Jair Jurrijens is not the best pitcher in baseball. Ryan Vogelsong is not one of the best pitchers in baseball. Josh Beckett is another guy who has had a ridiculous amount of luck. Etc.

If we're talking about long-term, I don't see why we wouldn't look more at peripherals instead.

Nolasco's had an ERA+ under 100 each of the last two years (which is absolutely terrible), yet his strong peripherals got him a healthy contract.

Obviously Nolasco doesn't have Anibal's injury history, but that's about it.

Anibal's been very good this year.
His xFip is top 15 in all of baseball. His walk rate is good, and his strikeout rate is now fantastic. He's been K'ing more guys than Nolasco, which was probably difficult to predict before the year.

The question is can he stay healthy and keep it up? That's the risk.
However, with his strong peripherals, you can certainly make the case that Anibal has the potential to be even better than his current ERA, as well.

He's been very good this year.

The difference between him and some of the ERA+ leaders is the fact that his #'s are legit, while Jurrijens is putting up .256 .BABIP #'s. A LOB% near 85%.

It's silly to evaluate whether a guy is legit or not by just looking at yearly ERA+ numbers. Process matters too when predicting future results which is really all that matters when you're giving out a long-term contract.
--------------------

Yes, our starting pitching is weak and thin, but in an era where guys like Ryan Vogelsong and Paul Maholm are All Stars and guys like Hanley Ramirez and Albert Pujols hit well below their career averages, you make the trade every time.

That's terrible logic, as well.

[Ramp]

Who's out there that we can possibly go after, who's an established 3rd basemen? Do we need another SP? We have Johnson, Nolly, Sanchy, Javy, Volstad and Hensley.

Maybe he's talking about next year?

He's talking about next year.

[Beef]

MAYBE

[MiamiHomer]

CHICAGO — Don’t consider Marlins’ sellers just yet. Actually, they may not be for the rest of the season.

With 69 games remaining, team owner Jeffrey Loria has not lost hope that his youthful club can still make a playoff push.

On Friday afternoon, Loria spoke with reporters and he said not to sell the Marlins’ short.

Loria added that the team is in the market for an experienced third baseman as well as more starting pitching. Now, those spots may not be immediately addressed, or at least before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline.

The Marlins are looking towards building a foundation as they move into their new ballpark, which opens in 2012. So the team is monitoring the market now and expects to continue to do so in the offseason.

Prospect Matt Dominguez is still an option to play third, but until he is ready, the team is exploring all options. They would prefer to add a veteran.

As for starting pitchers, there has been speculation that the club would listen on offers for Ricky Nolasco and Anibal Sanchez. The team has little interest in moving either one.

Marlins seeking pitching, third base help

[emkayseven]

doesn't do this justice. I wish HTML worked on here so I could write

<img src=":fip" height="23094823" width="23094823">

[MiamiHomer]

I think he's delusional.