ESPN: Edwin Rodriguez Trying to Keep Fish Afloat

[CrimsonCane]

As for South Florida, I have news for you - many people around the country have visited So Fla and hate it. ... That and the horrible language barrier. In many shops in Miami, if you don't speak Spanish you are treated very poorly.

LOL at the "language barrier" being a deterrence to acquiring good baseball players. Do you watch baseball? Baseball's elite players are predominantly hispanics who, by and large, speak spanish as their preferred language. If those people are looking for a place where they'd feel most comfortable, Miami ranks as the #1 place in all of the United States for them. Many of those players already count South Florida as their home in the offseason.

[Emperor]

We've been able to get Pudge and Carlos Delgado. Both very much in their primes. Yea, we didn't re-sign Pudge and we traded Delgado, but both came to Florida willingly.

And since Delgado signed in 2004 what huge FA signings have we had ? Buck ? He was overpaid in my opinion. Pudge had no other offers at $ 10 million, and was only signed late, just before TC opened IIRC. It wasn't like he hit FA in Nov and was signed right away. (I looked it up and he was granted FA Oct 28th, 2002 and signed by the Marlins Jan 28th, 2003). So teams weren't knocking down his door exactly. Did he work out for us ? Yes, but it was far from a certainty. No one knew how he would do and he was actually being brought in to be a pitchers catcher, not an offensive threat, much like Buck.

Hanley and Josh Johnson are elite players. Now Hanley is struggling mightily, but his career speaks for itself. Anibal Sanchez is a very good pitcher and Ricky Nolasco has his moments (more good than bad). Logan Morrison, Gaby Sanchez and Mike Stanton are the makings of fantastic 2-6 hitters. You have to be kidding me if you don't believe any of this. And while we're at it, John Buck is locked up for two more years and he is has been more than adequate as a game-caller and defensively.

They are 2nd year players, and the sample is still to small to say they will maintain this. It looks good, especially for Sanchez, Morrison & Stanton, but I would like to see them do it for 2 full seasons and then I believe. I also just don't see Stanton here long term. He will be the next Miggy type trade. I just don't ever see Loria giving up that kind of money for a single player.

Can't argue with this part. If we don't lock Stanton up, we won't be able to afford him. Neither would 20 other teams in the league. The nonsense about our players liking California more than South Florida is pure hearsay at this point on your part.

Not hearsay. I heard Stanton give an interview on either pre or post game on FSFlorida a few weeks ago where he maintained that he wants to play back home soon as possible. I think it was during the Dodgers in LA series. Its then that I came to believe that unless Loria is quick and diligent, Stanton will be gone as soon as he can.

You're seriously out of your mind. Josh Johnson is one of the best pitchers in baseball and again, while Hanley has had a rough 2.5 months, he's still one of the best shortstops in the game. Teams would give their first born for him. You can assure me that Dan Uggla is talking shit about Loria to the Braves? Who the fuck cares what Dan Uggla says? He wanted a contract that would be worth more than Hanley Ramirez. He's just as insane as you are. Blah Blah Blah trust... if the millions are offered, players show up. Money talks.

Johnson is great, maybe the best in the business but he also seems to be fragile. He isn't very valuable if he is always on the DL. He needs to be healthy for more than 2 years in a row to become a truly elite pitcher. Right now to count on JJ to be your ace is a bit on the foolish side.

As for Hanley, its been more than a rough 2.5 months. He had problems getting going last year, and it hurt the team. Then he had his "kick the ball around and then get attitude" incident last year. I think Hanley has less value than you think. Most around MLB would take at least 2 other SS before Hanley, if not 3. His defense can be less than stellar.

Nothing wrong with new fans looking for the team to win. This team is going to have plenty of excitement surrounding them heading into the 2012 season. We spent money this off-season, and I look for us to spend money this coming off-season. Loria's rep means nothing except for fans that like to bitch and moan about him.

Also, I don't have a heart, so don't worry about how deep it goes.

A lot of ifs have to happen for your premise of a great 2012 is to happen. JJ has to be healthy - right now his shoulder could be a big problem, and if he requires surgery - that means he possibly doesn't start 2012 until after the All Star Break. You also are counting on Hanley to bounce back, that is also a question mark. To me more there are questions than answers when we talk about 2012, to say whether or not there will be any excitement other than a new stadium opening. Loria has to come through on his promise of more payroll, and if Johnson is hurt, and Hanley doesn't turn into Hanley by the end of the year, he will be spending even more money than anticipated by you right now.
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There are 30 available major league managing positions available in the entire world.

They won't have trouble finding someone because Loria is moody, or whatever.

All you want to do is find "someone" ? I don't want to find "someone" I want to find the BEST one. I think they have the man right now. I like Edwin a lot, but what you, I and Hanley think doesn't mean diddly if Loria wants to change the manager out. Loria has a history of not being the most patient man, so if a man's past is a window to his future, Edwin's seat is at least warm if not hot.

[Bobbob1313]

All you want to do is find "someone" ? I don't want to find "someone" I want to find the BEST one. I think they have the man right now. I like Edwin a lot, but what you, I and Hanley think doesn't mean diddly if Loria wants to change the manager out. Loria has a history of not being the most patient man, so if a man's past is a window to his future, Edwin's seat is at least warm if not hot.

In a field with 30 available positions, if you have the money, you can mostly get whoever you want. Whatever people's perception is over Loria is largely irrelevant.

[Emperor]

LOL at the "language barrier" being a deterrence to acquiring good baseball players. Do you watch baseball? Baseball's elite players are predominantly hispanics who, by and large, speak spanish as their preferred language. If those people are looking for a place where they'd feel most comfortable, Miami ranks as the #1 place in all of the United States for them. Many of those players already count South Florida as their home in the offseason.

SIGH & ROLLEYES......and do we control those players ? How many of them hit FA and how many have we signed ? Delgado was the last outside of Buck, who we overpaid for.

I can assure you that not as many of these hispanic players as you think live here in the off-season. A few do, but when given the choice, many of them, as well as almost EVERY non-hispanic player chooses to live elsewhere, even on our own team.

If you wish to live in a fantasy world in which all hispanics love So Fla, then be my guest, but if any of my friends children are an example, they leave to go to college, and most of them do not return. I believe ball players are much the same.

[Bobbob1313]

Can you assure us with more than your opinion and the opinions of your friend's children?

Holy shit.
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What's funny of course, is that the rest of the sporting world spent the last 9 months bitching that 2 basketball players left their shitty cold weather cities to live and play in Miami, and Emporer knows for a fact that wealthy athletes despise Miami.

[Emperor]

In a field with 30 available positions, if you have the money, you can mostly get whoever you want. Whatever people's perception is over Loria is largely irrelevant.

If you want to continue to believe that, then fine, but reality is his reputation does hurt him, and then by proxy the Marlins.

[Bobbob1313]

If you want to continue to believe that, then fine, but reality is his reputation does hurt him, and then by proxy the Marlins.

You speak with the great wisdom of every asshole on the internet. But the truth is, you can't and don't know anything about the inner workings of baseball and especially the inner workings of the minds of the people in and around baseball.

In any given year, there are probably 5-10 manager positions available. This is one of the most difficult fields to break into. Very few people have the luxury to turn down a multi-million dollar deal at the top of their profession because they won't like their boss. You're ignoring human nature.

[Emperor]

You speak with the great wisdom of every asshole on the internet. But the truth is, you can't and don't know anything about the inner workings of baseball and especially the inner workings of the minds of the people in and around baseball.

In any given year, there are probably 5-10 manager positions available. This is one of the most difficult fields to break into. Very few people have the luxury to turn down a multi-million dollar deal at the top of their profession because they won't like their boss. You're ignoring human nature.

And you speak with that same knowledge. How do you know I don't know what I am talking about. FOR ALL OF US ITS NOTHING MORE THAN OPINION. I don't speak with any authority, I only speak with what I see and form an opionion. Holy Jesus crap you people are incredible. Does this have to be explained to you ?

[CrimsonCane]

SIGH & ROLLEYES......and do we control those players ? How many of them hit FA and how many have we signed ? Delgado was the last outside of Buck, who we overpaid for.

I can assure you that not as many of these hispanic players as you think live here in the off-season. A few do, but when given the choice, many of them, as well as almost EVERY non-hispanic player chooses to live elsewhere, even on our own team.

If you wish to live in a fantasy world in which all hispanics love So Fla, then be my guest, but if any of my friends children are an example, they leave to go to college, and most of them do not return. I believe ball players are much the same.

You're too much.

You seem to give all of us a lot of assurances about facts that you can't reasonably support and which defy conventional wisdom.

I would assume that if a mainly spanish-speaking baseball star is not living somewhere like Miami, he's probably living back in the Dominican Republic or somewhere like that. However, all the more reason why a place like Miami during the season would be a desirable place where they can be close to home.

I don't live in a fantasy world where all hispanics love South Florida. But, I think we're seemingly discussing different groups of players. I am emphasizing the foreign born players from Latin America, a group that is both large in number and disproportionately among the league's best. (Pujols, Cabrera, Hanley, Reyes, Bautista, Cano, etc.) You're talking about American-born hispanics like your friends kids who likely speak English as their first language and are assimilated. Two completely different groups of people. And, since you rely so heavily on strained anecdotes, I'll include my own as rebuttal. I'm likely close in age to your friend's kids. I went to college elsewhere and returned to Miami. (And, I graduated from Harvard so it wasn't due to a lack of employment options elsewhere)

More importantly, I do not think that multi-millionaire baseball players are in any way comparable to your friend's children. First, the baseball players are rich; rich people can enjoy the city in a way that most people can't. From what I hear, rich people tend to like it. Second, they never need to worry about employment, so I don't think Miami's principal failings (the inability to create middle class jobs) is going to be an issue of concern for them.

Very few people have the luxury to turn down a multi-million dollar deal at the top of their profession because they won't like their boss. You're ignoring human nature.

He assures you that he can. His friends kids told him so.

[Bobbob1313]

Holy Jesus crap you people are incredible. Does this have to be explained to you ?

I understand that I'm incredible, but it never hurts to hear why and how.
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I can assure you I would like Miami a whole lot more if I had money.

Believe me, I dislike Miami as much as anyone, and would love nothing more than to get out of here; but if you can't see the draw of Miami to a wealthy, foreign born hispanic, you're absolutely blind. If this city appeals toanyone, it's them.

[Erick]

And you speak with that same knowledge. How do you know I don't know what I am talking about. FOR ALL OF US ITS NOTHING MORE THAN OPINION. I don't speak with any authority, I only speak with what I see and form an opionion. Holy Jesus crap you people are incredible. Does this have to be explained to you ?

Bobbob isn't saying that Loria has a great reputation around baseball. That's the difference.

You, on the other hand, keep saying that Loria has a bad reputation, despite not really knowing shit. You haven't even provided any evidence. (links, etc.)

[Bobbob1313]

I'd believe that Loria has a bad reputation.

I just don't think it's going to hurt us. Players go where the money is.

[Erick]

I'd believe that Loria has a bad reputation.

I just don't think it's going to hurt us. Players go where the money is.

Yeah, it's a business decision, at the end of the day.

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

I hate to break this argument up but I think this is the best place to put this.

Just spoke with Marlins president David Samson about the team’s skid, which he called “an unprecedented bad stretch” that the front office, as we might expect, is “disappointed” about.

Samson did not say anything definitive about the future of manager Edwin Rodriguez, only that Samson and owner Jeffrey Loria had not “pondered” a managerial change, although he sounded like he left that door open a bit.

Samson chose his words carefully. Draw your own conclusion. Here’s the transcript from our brief conversation:

What are your and Jeffrey’s thoughts on the skid?
“Obviously we are going through an unprecedented bad stretch and we are disappointed. But as quickly as things have gone bad, we are hoping they can get good again.”

Is there any pressure on manager Edwin Rodriguez or are you confident that he can get them out of this?
“I think there’s… There’s, you know… Yes, I am confident we have the ability to get out of this. We’ll just have to see how we do it. You hear this from us every year: Everyone is always evaluated every day, always.”

You dismissed the hitting coach a week ago. Is there any reason to suspect Edwin’s job is on the line?
“It’s not something that I have pondered with (owner) Jeffrey (Loria). I can’t really say that… I can’t really say, to be honest with you…

“Listen, Larry (Beinfest) and I are talking every day. Larry is talking with his baseball people. We’re trying to figure out what the best thing we can do, how we can get this turned around. Obviously, it got sour very quickly. I’ve never seen something turn as quickly, so we’ve got out figure out what, if anything, needs to be done.”

What do you think needs to be done?
“I think the players need to play better, I think the manager needs to manage better and I think the GM needs to general manage better and the president needs to be more presidential.”

Capozzi's interview with David Samson

I lol'd at that "president needs to be more presidential".

[Jay]

idiot