Is Beinfest to Blame for Marlins' Skid?

[Erick]

Erick gon get mad if Eduardo tells Hanley how to fix his everything

Whenever Hanley becomes a hitter again, I probably won't be crediting Eduardo Perez for the turnaround.

[Chewford]

I'm not even mad anymore.

[AdamRavs]

Whenever Hanley becomes a hitter again, I probably won't be crediting Eduardo Perez for the turnaround.

so your saying there's a chance?

[Emperor]

for all of what?

He designed this team and he's had 9 seasons now, and has pnly gotten a team that the core of which he didn't design, won - 2003. Everyone of Beinfest's other teams, with the exception of the surprising 2006 have been pretty much failures.

Since Loria refuses to open up the wallet for vets, the draft needed to be our catalyst to success. Well except for 2 or 3 finds, Beinfest has pretty much struck out. He's gathered together several good players, but many high picks, which you nee to hit on at least once or twice have been busts.

Hermida = bust
Allison = bust
Sinkbeil = bust
Volstad = bust
Skipworth = bust
Marceaux = bust

Law of averages says you should have hit on one of them, but he wiffed on all of them. That shows he maybe is not as good as some people think he is.

Also his ability to put together a bench - year after year its flawed.

We've seen his best, isn't it time for a fressh approach & set of eyes ? He's had chance, what could it hurt for Loria to make a change ?
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All those injuries. I blame Loria. Fight the power, emperor!

3rd base defeciencies are due to injury ? Bench weakness is due to injury ? Resigning Wes Helms instead of getting a proven vet for that bench is due to injury ?

Place the blame where it needs to go, on Beinfest.

[lou]

He designed this team and he's had 9 seasons now, and has pnly gotten a team that the core of which he didn't design, won - 2003. Everyone of Beinfest's other teams, with the exception of the surprising 2006 have been pretty much failures.

Since Loria refuses to open up the wallet for vets, the draft needed to be our catalyst to success. Well except for 2 or 3 finds, Beinfest has pretty much struck out. He's gathered together several good players, but many high picks, which you nee to hit on at least once or twice have been busts.

Hermida = bust
Allison = bust
Sinkbeil = bust
Volstad = bust
Skipworth = bust
Marceaux = bust

Law of averages says you should have hit on one of them, but he wiffed on all of them. That shows he maybe is not as good as some people think he is.

Also his ability to put together a bench - year after year its flawed.

We've seen his best, isn't it time for a fressh approach & set of eyes ? He's had chance, what could it hurt for Loria to make a change ?

If you're gonna do this, at least do it right and throw in West, Tucker, and Thompson too, part of the Fab 5 draft where it looks like we are getting nothing from.

But at the same time, he did draft Johnson, Stanton, Morrison, Sanchez, Coghlan, plucked Uggla on the Rule 5 which does count, and overall has done a pretty good job of acquiring assets via waivers/trades from Hanley, Anibal, Nolasco, and Willis, to smaller moves like Cody, Cantu for the first few years at least, Nunez, etc. Yea some of the trades have turned out horrific even if not terrible on paper at the time (Cabrera), but overall this is not a disaster. It could be a lot worse. A lot.

Does he need to start hitting on first rounders? Yes. Dominguez and James need to work out big time based on our needs, but your criticism is a bit much. He's a pretty good GM. There is a lot of super young and controllable talent on the MLB squad even if it's a bottom 10 farm system right now.

We'll find out real quick in 2012-2013 how he acts. All the excuses go away. Taking draft picks above slot, free agency, arbitration and free agent contracts. All of it. If he starts blowing serious money on closers like Heath Bell and still doesn't address the bench/stopgap starters next year when he has payroll latitude, then I think the discussion begins of axing Beinfest/Hill because they clearly don't get it at that point. We're nowhere near that yet. Nowhere. A bad 15 games doesn't change anything.

[Emperor]

That Beinfest should have predicted Hanley would turn into garbage over night?

Yes.

You can be an idiot sometimes. Who can predict injuries and slumps.

This team lacks DEPTH, and you should have a bit of a backup plan if you have done your homework. Beinfests lack of vision beyond Hanley & JJ, has basically killed our season. His band-aid approach has failed us year after year. How many times do you have to bang your head into the wall to make sure that hurts ?

We've seen his best and it isn't good enough. Other organizations are passing us by, going from bad to good. We are headed for disgrace it looks like, and Beinfest has to take the blame once again. He apologised for last season (he said before the season his bullpen disaster last year was his fault) and what will be the excuse for this year ? i'VE SEEN ENOUGH.

[lou]

You can be an idiot sometimes. Who can predict injuries and slumps.

This team lacks DEPTH, and you should have a bit of a backup plan if you have done your homework. Beinfests lack of vision beyond Hanley & JJ, has basically killed our season. His band-aid approach has failed us year after year. How many times do you have to bang your head into the wall to make sure that hurts ?

We've seen his best and it isn't good enough. Other organizations are passing us by, going from bad to good. We are headed for disgrace it looks like, and Beinfest has to take the blame once again. He apologised for last season (he said before the season his bullpen disaster last year was his fault) and what will be the excuse for this year ? i'VE SEEN ENOUGH.

I think we've seen enough of you.

I don't think a team with a longterm 2-3-4-5 of Hanley, Morrison, Stanton, and Gaby, three young starters in Johnson, Anibal, and Nolasco, a good young bullpen, and amazing payroll flexibility moving forward (assuming Loria opens up the wallet and let's them cut into the $70-80 million range) is "headed for disgrace." In fact, I think most GMs in baseball would be pretty happy if that is the building blocks.

[Emperor]

If you're gonna do this, at least do it right and throw in West, Tucker, and Thompson too, part of the Fab 5 draft where it looks like we are getting nothing from.

But at the same time, he did draft Johnson, Stanton, Morrison, Sanchez, Coghlan, plucked Uggla on the Rule 5 which does count, and overall has done a pretty good job of acquiring assets via waivers/trades from Hanley, Anibal, Nolasco, and Willis, to smaller moves like Cody, Cantu for the first few years at least, Nunez, etc. Yea some of the trades have turned out horrific even if not terrible on paper at the time (Cabrera), but overall this is not a disaster. It could be a lot worse. A lot.

Does he need to start hitting on first rounders? Yes. Dominguez and James need to work out big time based on our needs, but your criticism is a bit much. He's a pretty good GM. There is a lot of super young and controllable talent on the MLB squad even if it's a bottom 10 farm system right now.

We'll find out real quick in 2012-2013 how he acts. All the excuses go away. Taking draft picks above slot, free agency, arbitration and free agent contracts. All of it. If he starts blowing serious money on closers like Heath Bell and still doesn't address the bench/stopgap starters next year when he has payroll latitude, then I think the discussion begins of axing Beinfest/Hill because they clearly don't get it at that point. We're nowhere near that yet. Nowhere. A bad 15 games doesn't change anything.

Missing on all the 1st round talent has killed our teams immeditate future. Yes he hit on some lower round talent, everyone does that, and we've hit on no more or less lower round talent than any other team, but my God missing on ALL of those 1st rounders, when you have the HUGE pool to pick from, c'mon dude, that is just more than "bad luck" that is someone that just doesn't have the best approach to his draft.

Then the Caberra trade - you cannot trade a talent like him, and end up with nothing for it. Most FO people would have been fired by now on other teams for such a blunder.

Why does everyone want to give this guy more time ? He's had 9 seasons to put together a winner, and he hasn't made the playoffs with "his guys". WE've seen enough.

[emkayseven]

I'd argue that two of the most valuable guys on that 03 team - Willis and Pudge - were Beinfest's guys. And he got Urbina. And Conine. Some pretty big pieces there.

This team has consistently overachieved, from 2006 when we were supposed to be shit onwards. The problem isn't Beinfest.

I've said this before over the course of the last 5 years, but I think the real change needs to come in conditioning. Our players get hurt way too fucking often.

[Emperor]

I think we've seen enough of you.

I don't think a team with a longterm 2-3-4-5 of Hanley, Morrison, Stanton, and Gaby, three young starters in Johnson, Anibal, and Nolasco, a good young bullpen, and amazing payroll flexibility moving forward (assuming Loria opens up the wallet and let's them cut into the $70-80 million range) is "headed for disgrace." In fact, I think most GMs in baseball would be pretty happy if that is the building blocks.

Well if you can still see hope in a future with this bunch, then good luck. I say most of them are gone before 2014 season begins. Loria will never pay the $$$ it will take to keep Stanton longterm. That is a guarantee.
--------------------

I'd argue that two of the most valuable guys on that 03 team - Willis and Pudge - were Beinfest's guys. And he got Urbina. And Conine. Some pretty big pieces there.

This team has consistently overachieved, from 2006 when we were supposed to be shit onwards. The problem isn't Beinfest.

I've said this before over the course of the last 5 years, but I think the real change needs to come in conditioning. Our players get hurt way too fucking often.

Man people will do & say anything to protect this guy. I just don't get it.

Whatever - I had my say, you can mock me if you wish. I believe I will be right.

[emkayseven]

I'm not a Beinfesthead, I don't blindly support him. He's made some dumb fucking mistakes but he's also done a pretty remarkable job with what little resources he's had. Over the past decade we've been wildly more successful than teams like the Orioles and Mets who have way more money to spend and "respected baseball men" running operations. He's made some mistakes but not predicting that JJ would get injured in May and not predicting that Hanley would OPS .500 is not his fault. No team - not a single one - has a "backup plan" that involves a suitable replacement to one of the best hitters and one of the best pitchers in baseball. Should we have had a more capable 6th starter? Absolutely, but we didn't even really have a 5th starter to start the season. So yeah, I'll put a little blame on Beinfest there. But I would expect nothing else beyond what we have as far as backup to Hanley.

[Swifty]

I think the time to fire Beinfest was two years ago when the Miggy trade looked disastrous and his draft success was limited to JJ. Now with Stanton and LoMo in the fold with what looks to be a great Uggla trade (but we need to stop using Dunn so much) and a mostly successful FA foray in Buck and Choate, Javy obviously the exception, he's placed a foundation that he should be allowed to see to its apex.

Now if you want to can Larry, and about everyone knows I'm not his biggest fan, I think he needs to whiff tremendously on this offseason AND have a slow start to the 2012 season. Even that may be knee jerk, but there's no reason to get rid of him now.

[Mainge]

You can be an idiot sometimes. Who can predict injuries and slumps.

This team lacks DEPTH, and you should have a bit of a backup plan if you have done your homework. Beinfests lack of vision beyond Hanley & JJ, has basically killed our season. His band-aid approach has failed us year after year. How many times do you have to bang your head into the wall to make sure that hurts ?

We've seen his best and it isn't good enough. Other organizations are passing us by, going from bad to good. We are headed for disgrace it looks like, and Beinfest has to take the blame once again. He apologised for last season (he said before the season his bullpen disaster last year was his fault) and what will be the excuse for this year ? i'VE SEEN ENOUGH.

[Emperor]

I'd argue that two of the most valuable guys on that 03 team - Willis and Pudge - were Beinfest's guys. And he got Urbina. And Conine. Some pretty big pieces there.

This team has consistently overachieved, from 2006 when we were supposed to be shit onwards. The problem isn't Beinfest.

I've said this before over the course of the last 5 years, but I think the real change needs to come in conditioning. Our players get hurt way too fucking often.

If you think we overachieve then your expectations are way lower than mine. He has had 9 seasons to put together a winner, using his formula and has failed every year. 2003 was gift wrapped for him. But using his formula and his aquisition talents since 2006 he's way under achieved I believe. 5 seasons is long enough to put it together. If you can't, then adios amigo.

[MiamiHomer]

2003 was gift wrapped?