Spring Training Roster Cuts

[Bobbob1313]

Hinske resigned with the Braves and got a 1.35 mil contract and a 1.5 mil team option next year. Ankiel got 1.5 mil and is starting for Washington. Mark kotsay's making at least 800k coming off a Wes Helms like season in a massive hitters park. Thames signed for 1 mil with 800k in incentives. Lewis is making 900k.

Hinske was available, Ankiel wasn't coming here to lose a starting job, mark Kotsay is as bad as anyone we have.

So yeah of the guys you mentioned, we could have gone and gotten Lewis or Thames and they would have represented serious upgrades. Those are the only ones of the ones you mentioned that fulfill both criteria.

[Beef]

Maybe they would have represented serious upgrades, maybe not. Pinch hitting stats are, by nature, very volatile.

[Bobbob1313]

Also that. In 2010, Wes Helms was a terrible pinch hitter. In 2009 he was pretty good. In 2008 he was good again. In 2007 he sucked.

[CrimsonCane]

I'm hesitant to label anything "worst in the league" without knowing what the actual averages are for other teams in the league. I assume that if our bench players put up better OPSs, then they likely wouldn't be bench players.

This is the exact reason why I asked Fip to tell me what he predicts his fantasy team will have in HRs and RBIs this season. (STOP IGNORING ME FIP!) He may think his number is high, but that might not hold up once you make comparisons between teams.

[Bobbob1313]

People very rarely take context into account when saying things.

Which is why saying something like "We could have gotten Ankiel or Hinske or even Kotsay" or "David Eckstein is better than anyone on our bench" is silly. It's just saying things for the sake of having said something, regardless of the context.
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Is a bench of Brian Schneider, Ross Gload, Wilson Valdez, John Mayberry Jr., and Delwyn Young better than Dobbs, Helms, Cousins, Bonifacio, and Baker (I don't count Hayes, he's only there because of injury.)

Gload is better than Dobbs, but if ours is the worst in baseball, Philadelphia's is probably like, 3rd worst, or something.

[lou]

They are also decimated by injuries where if Ben Francisco, who is good, and whoever the hell is playing in their infield would look much better off their bench. If I remember, you were advocating Castillo for us due to his low 2010 BABIP, so you can't just ignore him cause Philly has gotten date raped by injuries. Additionally, Ankiel was never guaranteed a job, and even Kotsay can still hit right handers a little bit. That was not an exhaustive list either as that's just off the top of my head, let alone the myriad of trade options or at least TRYING to find someone on a minor league deal, like Eric Chavez or Andy LaRoche who is still young and has at least had success at this level. Dobbs? Wise? Really? You're really stretching thin now into ultra homerism, and I find it funny you want to blanket statement me into "people rarely take context into account when saying things." Clearly, I am an ignoramus. I really hope you are right and Dobbs and Helms slide back into decent bench form, Cousins does enough not to embarrass himself, and Murphy and Bonifacio play at least replacement level 3B, but this is across the board SCARY this part of the team. And it's completely ignoring we have two infielders in the OF, and starting so much youth who will have ups and downs besides their obvious stellar upside. Veteran backups we could rely on, would pay enormous dividends. Organizationally, this is not 2005-2008 anymore where we need to literally be worried about a few bucks above the MLB minimum salary. This team has shifted into a new payroll dynamic that needs to be more focused on what a wise man calls, Winning, more so than warm bodies like Abercrombie, Borchard, Lamb, and the litany of other guys we can all spout off that have been given way to many AB by this organization the last 6 or 7 years.

It's really silly for you to defend this and not be disappointed this team has six position players on the roster who can all be considered 25th men. One of whom is starting. Nominal amounts of cash could have rectified this problem, and considering we have no less than 4-5 relievers in AAA all of us would feel 'comfortable' with as our 7th guy in the pen in a worst case scenario, it's really irresponsible for us to be spending "payroll excess" or whatever you want to call it on all these relievers. Especially for a team/owner who is demanding results. A few more bucks or better roster construction literally makes this team a few wins better. It would have been easy. Expecting a AA third baseman to jump to the bigs with limited success in AA when he's the youngest player in that league to begin with, and filling the rest in with all guys who literally have nowhere else to go is maddening. Be annoyed. It's going to take significant luck for them to get out of this without trades.

If this was Dobbs and solid options, no problem. If this was Dobbs and Cousins, and other guys who are likely to be solid, no problem. But this is resigning Helms, Murphy as a starter and off injury where we didn't even know if he was going to be ready, Bonifacio who really is just that guy on your end of the bench you just need to put it anywhere, and they knew Baker was injured and still didn't bring in any veteran catchers to even compete with Hayes, whose also coming off an injury. There was no plan here. No organizational thought process. Seriously, What the fuck? They do more good than bad as a front office, but it just has to blow your mind sometimes they do shit like this.

I'll be happy to "eat crow" or whatever if Murphy becomes the next Cody and holds down the fort, and the rest of the guys do enough to get by, because I just want the team to win, but I cannot get behind the fact that nearly half our position players just flat out suck. And there is nothing in AAA (maybe Martinez) if they are as bad as feared.

[emkayseven]

I think to say there's no one at AAA is an overstatement. Gotay could probably be a .675 OPS off the bench, as is Padilla.

I do agree with you, someone could have been brought in that was more solid. But the guys you mentioned weren't really options because they had better alternatives. I still wish we would go out and convince Jermaine Dye to come back if he's in good shape, or something like that. I'm not sure I like a guy like Ankiel at 1.5 over the crap we have when yeah, maybe the upside is higher, but the reality is not necessarily better.

Also, definitely agree that we should have gotten a veteran backup catcher.

[Bobbob1313]

Lou, when you're saying something like "We might have the worst bench in the majors" and "David Eckstein is better than anyone we have on the bench," then yeah, I'm gonna accuse you of failing to take things into context.

Looking in our own division, teams will be running out these benches:

Braves: Brooks Conrad, David Ross, Matt Young, Brandon Hicks, and Eric Hinske
Nationals: Layne Nix, Wilson Ramos, Jerry Hairston, Alex Cora, Matt Stairs
Phillies: (Even assuming Utley will be healthy at some point) Ben Francisco, Luis Castillo, John Mayberry, Brian Schneider, Ross Gload
Mets: Daniel Murphy, Scott Hairston, Willie Harris, Chin-Lung Ho, Mike Nickeas

I would argue we might not have the worst bench in our own division, as that Mets bench is really quite bad as well. Murphy is better than anyone we have, but the rest of that bench is terrible.

I don't think trading any of those benches for ours makes us significantly better. The Nats might have the best in the division, but they also have Alex Cora and Jerry Hairston.



Also, bitching about Greg Dobbs and then being like "Why didn't they give Eric Chavez a minor league deal?" is really silly.

[Big Z]

Castillo released again.

... Just if Rodriguez would let Infante play 3rd.

[emkayseven]

I think I might even prefer Infante/Murphy over Castillo/Infante at this point

[Bobbob1313]

Also, the average PHer in the NL put up a .641 OPS last year. In the AL, .631.

The bar is set really fucking low.

Subs in the NL hit .628, .654.

[Ramp]

Castillo released again.

... Just if Rodriguez would let Infante play 3rd.

there's a reason why he keeps being released...

[Beef]

Castillo released again.

... Just if Rodriguez would let Infante play 3rd.

I think we should wait until we are absolutely positive that nobody else in Major League Baseball thinks he can play Major League Baseball

[Bobbob1313]

I think I might even prefer Infante/Murphy over Castillo/Infante at this point

I also think I would. The more I see projections for him, the more I think he can put up a .~740 OPS with at least OK defense. That can be worth two wins over a full season.

sure, we could put a ton of stock into his 40% K rate in 50 PAs last year, but realistically, he'll be around 30%, which will kill his BA, but he'll probably put up a near .200 ISO.

[emkayseven]

I think it's also nice to have a guy with some potential upside as opposed to a guy like Castillo or Feliz who are on the downswing. I doubt Murphy hits more than .240, but the power should be solid and the defense will probably be average.