Beinfest Doesn't Care About the Bullpen; Reds Win 10-8 in 11

[wanks1212]

You're not going to get a lights out everytime bullpen with this method, but if you accept their volatility as an inherent part of their being and treat them acccordingly (which we generally do) you can have success. It just takes a few (or more) blowups by the assholes before you find the right mix.

This method is fine when the FO doesn't give a playoffs or bust ultimatum, because then the few or more blowups don't cost the team a playoff spot. But when you're expecting playoffs, you can't just say "sure, this method may cost the team a few games early in the year, but we'll cycle through to get the right mix eventually," becuase those few games that result in blowups early in the year can be the difference between 90 wins and a Wild Card spot and 87 wins and sitting at home in October.

[Party]

We'll see.

Beinfest has a mediocre track record when it comes to constructing bullpens. Half the guys on that list have a track record of not being any good.

RVH should have started the year on the ML roster. Why we are giving a guy like Veras opportunities in key situations boggles my mind. If we are going to rely on finesse guys like Badenhop and Hensley to secure things in the 7th and 8th inning it is going to be a very long year.

[Ramp]

It would be nice to go into a season or even a game not having to worry about all 8 of your bullpen arms.

[Party]

This method is fine when the FO doesn't give a playoffs or bust ultimatum, because then the few or more blowups don't cost the team a playoff spot. But when you're expecting playoffs, you can't just say "sure, this method may cost the team a few games early in the year, but we'll cycle through to get the right mix eventually," becuase those few games that result in blowups early in the year can be the difference between 90 wins and a Wild Card spot and 87 wins and sitting at home in October.

[Bobbob1313]

We need guys like Vanden Hurk, West, Miller, and even Tucker getting as many starts as possible to see if they can still develop into starters. You go through your true relievers before you convert a 24 year old into a reliever.

[Party]

If you are the Pirates and there is absolutely no hope.

We are a few arms short of being very serious playoff contenders. All of this organization's minor league resources, except guys like Morrison and Stanton, should be directed at meeting that end. Not whether we can convert RVH into a decent 4th or 5th starter down the road.

[Jewbility]

This

[Bobbob1313]

But there are other arms that can be tried before RVH. I don't think RVH is a surefire bet to be a lockdown reliever right now, so I'd rather try whoever is pitching best of like Tucker, Beunte, Leroux, and whatever older Joe Nelson type guy is lighting up New Orleans before I try RVH.

Though if RVH continues to show he can't go deep in games, it's certainly near time to make that change.

[Party]

There aren't many arms with RVH's stuff.
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In our current bullpen, I'd say only Nunez has better stuff.

[Swifty]

I'm all for stretching guys out in the minors and what not, but you don't make a trade for N-Rob if you believe you have capable 4/5 starter options in house. If we don't look at RVH or West or Miller or whomever as a rotation player now in their stage of development, it's kind of pointless to hope to salvage something from them as a starter (Miller and West somewhat excluded) when it's possible, if not probable, that they'd make good relievers, RVH especially.

To put another way, eventually, with the amount of resources (time, money, draft picks) we've committed to building a super-duper rotation, only to see it fall well short, you eventually cut your losses and say, well, fuck it, we've got all these arms, let's try them in the 'pen instead.

Going back to my original point, all this talk of turnover is kind of silly when you consider how our "bad" bullpen has had the majority of its arms be the same guys for a relatively long time.

[Omar]

We need guys like Vanden Hurk, West, Miller, and even Tucker getting as many starts as possible to see if they can still develop into starters. You go through your true relievers before you convert a 24 year old into a reliever.

Not all of them, no. You have to have at least a couple of arms in your bullpen that are consistently reliable.

[Bobbob1313]

I'm still not ready to say this bullpen is "bad". The only pitcher right now I really don't expect to turn it around is Veras. I think we've had a really rough patch right now, but I think most of the guys will be ok, and it will look a lot better if Sanches adequately replaces Veras. If this was an 8 game stretch in June, it's just a bad stretch. That it's happening in the beginning of the season doesn't add any extra value outside of our perception.

And I'm fine with calling up RVH if we make the decision that he's being converted to reliever permanently, but if it's just because we need to fill a hole right now, I'd rather try some other guys before him.

[Party]

Even if the bullpen recovers, I think RVH would be a better option than most of them. That guy has had reliever written all over him since he was called up. Now is the time to do it. A Nunez-RVH back end of the rotation sounds extremely sexy.

[Ramp]

I know it's a complete pipedream, but getting Pedro for the pen would be cool.... I think

/hasnothingtobasethisonbesidesthefactheisavailable

[Bobbob1313]

Both of them give up a lot of fly balls.

I think the only way RVH is going to find success is if he can marry his increased control over the last year with his K rates from previous years, and that goes for both the bullpen and the rotation.

I think having two home run prone relievers at the back of the pen would lead to plenty of "THIS FUCKING GUY SUCKS" posts too.