Beinfest Doesn't Care About the Bullpen; Reds Win 10-8 in 11

[Beef]

It's really hard to say anything about 8 games.

8 games in the Yankees were getting sodomized, ergo, we're on pace to be World Champions...?

Yes. We are on pace to fire Fredi, win the wild card and never lose a playoff series ever

[Bobbob1313]

I think we/they knew it and are on roughly the same page. The problem is, as we saw with Julio and Bonifacio, egregious problems eventually get addressed, just oftentimes too late.

I think Bonifacio and Julio are the exceptions. It's not like we stuck with Logan Kensing, or John Koronka, or Luis Ayala, etc.

[Namaste]

I think we/they knew it and are on roughly the same page. The problem is, as we saw with Julio and Bonifacio, egregious problems eventually get addressed, just oftentimes too late.

And that leads into my point. Does the team wait until we are 8 games out of 1st in May before they throw a different pile of shit at the wall to see if it sticks?

[Bobbob1313]

I'm just saying that you dismissed the similarities awfully quickly. Can you honestly say that this pen is at all better then theirs was last year? I'm not saying we're going to finish like them...i'm just drawing a comparison.

I think guys like Dan Meyer, Burke Badenhop, and Leo Nunez are probably all better than anyone in their pen last year. So yeah, I'll say it, honestly.

[Swifty]

Reggie Abercrombie, Josaias Manzanillo, Matt Perisho and a bunch of others disagree with you bob.
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And that leads into my point. Does the team wait until we are 8 games out of 1st in May before they throw a different pile of shit at the wall to see if it sticks?

Well, I don't think we will shake it up now, nor do I think we should. What we really need is to stop using Veras in close games. Beyond that, some of this stuff will right itself, the rest will be shipped out for new crap.

[Bobbob1313]

And that leads into my point. Does the team wait until we are 8 games out of 1st in May before they throw a different pile of shit at the wall to see if it sticks?

How bad do you think the bullpen is going to be?

Do you really expect the pen to be this bad for the next month?

If the only thing that is causing us to be 8 games out of first place in May (that's a pretty huge number) is the bullpen, the pen is going to have to be pretty terrible. I think that's a big leap to make.

[Namaste]

Swift I love you for bringing Matt Perisho into this.

[Bobbob1313]

Reggie Abercrombie, Josaias Manzanillo, Matt Perisho and a bunch of others disagree with you bob.

I'm sure there are other examples too.

But they still don't represent the majority. For the most part, Beinfest isn't afraid to hook guys who aren't performing if there are potentially viable replacements available. And I think he's certainly gotten better about it in recent years, especially where the bullpen is concerned.

[wanks1212]

Do we really expect Brian Sanches to come back and save this bullpen?

I mean, Sanches was cool and all last year, but it's not like he has a strong track record that indicates repeating his 2009 season is a given, and he wasn't a lights out reliever even last season. Even when he's back, the bullpen doesn't look any better than last year, and it's still probably worse. Meaning it's a big problem.

[Namaste]

How bad do you think the bullpen is going to be?

Do you really expect the pen to be this bad for the next month?

If the only thing that is causing us to be 8 games out of first place in May (that's a pretty huge number) is the bullpen, the pen is going to have to be pretty terrible. I think that's a big leap to make.

You know bob before tonight I would have said my statement was all full of dumb but I see a pattern forming here. Fall behind, make a great run to get it close/tie it up and then watch as line drive after line drive has us down by 2.

And don't look now bob but the Phillies are good (again). Is it really that big of a stretch for us to be down 8 games by May?

[Swifty]

I'm sure there are other examples too.

But they still don't represent the majority. For the most part, Beinfest isn't afraid to hook guys who aren't performing if there are potentially viable replacements available. And I think he's certainly gotten better about it in recent years, especially where the bullpen is concerned.

A fucking chair with a glove on it would have been better than Bonifacio, so don't say that we always go for the upgrade if it's easily available.

The bullpen, for all this talk of turnover, has basically been anchored by the same 4 guys for two years: Meyer, Badenhop, Pinto, Nunez, and five if you count the eventual return of Brian Sanches. For all the talk of turnover in "recent years" there hasn't been much of it, swap out those last two spots, great, but you shouldn't have to use your 11th and 12th pitchers all that much.

[FishFanInPA]

Yeah, Sanches could go the route of Meyer and suck terribly like he has so far.

[Beef]

Well, bob didn't say always. Saying always in any situation tends to be dumb.

[Swifty]

Do we really expect Brian Sanches to come back and save this bullpen?

I mean, Sanches was cool and all last year, but it's not like he has a strong track record that indicates repeating his 2009 season is a given, and he wasn't a lights out reliever even last season. Even when he's back, the bullpen doesn't look any better than last year, and it's still probably worse. Meaning it's a big problem.

Save? No.

Give us better innings than Veras in the same role? Yes.

You take Veras' inning out of the game tonight and we win quite easily. Take Veras out and Cantu's error out and we have a laugher on our hands.

Now, I realize that the nature of sports is that bad shit happens, but it's not like we're that far from being decent. Veras is a huge huge huge problem down there and we'll get rid of him for another person.

[Bobbob1313]

You know bob before tonight I would have said my statement was all full of dumb but I see a pattern forming here. Fall behind, make a great run to get it close/tie it up and then watch as line drive after line drive has us down by 2.

And don't look now bob but the Phillies are good (again). Is it really that big of a stretch for us to be down 8 games by May?

How good do you expect them to be on May 15?

That's about 33 games into the season. Let's say they are at a .600 WP then (better than their total WP last season). That's 20 wins.

So you expect our lineup and rotation to be perfectly fine, but our bullpen to cause us to be 12-21 by that point?

I think that's ultra unrealistic.

Do we really expect Brian Sanches to come back and save this bullpen?

I mean, Sanches was cool and all last year, but it's not like he has a strong track record that indicates repeating his 2009 season is a given, and he wasn't a lights out reliever even last season. Even when he's back, the bullpen doesn't look any better than last year, and it's still probably worse. Meaning it's a big problem.

Sanches has been phenomenal over the last 4 seasons at the minors and was pretty damn good last year in the majors.

I think people are optimistic because if he can come in and put up something like an 8.5 K/9, and a 2.5 K/BB ratio, and he replaces Veras, the pen looks a whole lot better by replacing whoever is performing worst with someone who can at least be average, and can probably be above average.
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The bullpen, for all this talk of turnover, has basically been anchored by the same 4 guys for two years: Meyer, Badenhop, Pinto, Nunez, and five if you count the eventual return of Brian Sanches. For all the talk of turnover in "recent years" there hasn't been much of it, swap out those last two spots, great, but you shouldn't have to use your 11th and 12th pitchers all that much.

But only 3 of those guys were written into the bullpen at the start of last year, and only 2 of them finished the season in the role they were originally in.

The turnover argument is that guys like Logan Kensing blew and were replaced with guys like Brian Sanches. Go back two years and it was other guys being replaced by Joe Nelson and Doug Waechter. It's not like Brian Sanches was put in the pen from the beginning. The turnover came in him being inserted into the pen upon others' failings.

Then there's also the inevitable Brendan Donnelly's of the world. We usually get one of those guys to work out for us.