Beinfest Regime: Brilliance or Smoke and Mirrors?

[Party]

Who were rushed call-ups besides Kensing and RVH?

Both were more necessity moves than long term decisions at the time. If anything I think the FO does a good job developing and promoting the top tier talent. It's the Bakers and second tier players they suck at promoting/giving opportunities.

[emkayseven]

Who were rushed call-ups besides Kensing and RVH?

Both were more necessity moves than long term decisions at the time. If anything I think the FO does a good job developing and promoting the top tier talent. It's the Bakers and second tier players they suck at promoting/giving opportunities.

and willinghams

i'd say they rushed west also

[Jewbility]

Isn't the coach responsible for call-ups? I assume if they aren't on the 40, that becomes a financial matter in which he has to seek approval...but whose decision is it to promote players?

[Swifty]

The GM makes the final call but he receives input from coaches and regional scouts.

[emkayseven]

everything is the FO's decision in this organization

[Jewbility]

FO rushed Maybin, I'd say. Wasn't his strikeout rate pretty horrendous? Although they've handled it well since his callup.

[Swifty]

Nah, Maybin wasn't rushed, Maybin's just not that good.

Every player that comes up and struggles isn't rushed. There was nothing else for him to really do in the minors, he had to be on the opening day roster.

[Ramp]

Yorman Bazardo was literally ruined by the front office and Jack McKeon. I mean, McKeon made the poor kid cry in the tunnel after his debut

[Metes]

There's no crying in baseball

[Party]

and willinghams

i'd say they rushed west also

There was a time when we were begging for the FO to call up Willingham.

West was another rush job and a testament to the organization's ability to keep AAAA guys in the system for emergencies.

[wanks1212]

Who were rushed call-ups besides Kensing and RVH?

Both were more necessity moves than long term decisions at the time. If anything I think the FO does a good job developing and promoting the top tier talent. It's the Bakers and second tier players they suck at promoting/giving opportunities.

Ryan Tucker was another rush-job. So was Graham Taylor, but he wasn't much of a prospect anyway, so that's a little more forgivable. Still, Taylor was pretty much broken after his MLB stint last year.

[Bobbob1313]

Do I really make it seem like I think they are the best FO in the world?

They've fielded competitive team after competitive team with the lowest payroll in baseball, they do more good than bad. Yeah, the Boner etc. stuff is super frustrating, but I'm not going to harp on the bad when they have been in the hunt in the final month 3 of the last 4 years.

You can think they do a mostly good job and not think they are geniuses.

[emkayseven]

There was a time when we were begging for the FO to call up Willingham.

West was another rush job and a testament to the organization's ability to keep AAAA guys in the system for emergencies.

i was saying they kept willingham down too long like baker and the others, not that they rushed him

yeah forgot about tucker. they did a number on that kid. still young though

[Metes]

They rushed Chris Seddon, he would have been an All-Star if not for their tactics

[lou]

I have just one thing to add to the conversation...Lou you keep mentioning the numerous Beinfest "acquisitions/developments" that are still currently on the team; the problem is that most of them wouldn't be key players on just about any other major league roster. I don't know how much credence you can give to front office decisions when it's probably more difficult not to play for this team than it is. Florida keeps offering players 'second chances' (and first chances!) so what does that say about the difficulty in making the team? We either recycle players that other teams once thought were good (b/c we can afford them), add players that are widely regarded as prospects, or get lucky once in a while with one of our own picks. Granted, we have had winning seasons, but if you don't make the playoffs then you have not succeeded. Other than Uggla (which was just a lucky guess), the office hasn't shown a level of foresight that any other team would exhibit if constrained by payroll caps.

I think Uggla, Ross, Cantu, Baker, Lindstrom, Meyer, etc are all strong contributors on any team. These are good players. Yea, maybe Im stretching it with Tim Wood or Leroux just to fill out a hypothetical 25 man roster, but he's found diamonds in the rough at a very high percentage compared to other teams that flail around for years/decades and don't do anything. Imagine what's going to happen if he can sign a FA per offseason, retain our core players (like an uggla right now), and be able to find these guys randomly about baseball? That's going to look pretty damn good. Basically - finances.

We'll make the playoffs soon. We're on the verge of a Tampa Bay growing up. It's just a matter of when it all comes together with the pitching and minor league bats. So when that happens, criticism ends?

Lou, here's the thing, yet again.

Puff up Beinfest for genius moves like Resop for Gregg, yet, just like the trust manager in my earlier analogy, Gregg is turned into a 900 LB injury risk. Yes, maybe at one point you had that $5 million, but it's rapidly eroded. And that's the case with every young player of "value" we get.

Here are the testaments to Beinfest's "brilliance" on the current roster:

Dan Uggla
Jorge Cantu
John Baker

Here's the problem with all 3, we outwardly demonstrated we wanted no part of them as the every day starter. Uggla wouldn't be here if Pokey Reese didn't have a mental breakdown, Cantu was brought in as an afterthought to Jose Castillo (who was promised the job) and McPherson (who was the darkhorse with the chance to win it). And, as ramp stated, Baker was here twice, he wasn't good enough to stick on the 40 man. We got him for nothing, didn't like him enough and waived him, then traded a body for him. I don't know about you, but if I find something on the street, pick it up, look at it, then throw it away only to go out and buy it a week later, I don't think of that as a stroke of genius.

And lastly, Beinfest doesn't make the playoffs or win a title without Dombrowski's team. I think he's overly demonstrated that he cannot build a roster. If you want to argue he has, I'd argue your standards are far too lenient. At some point, you have to make the playoffs on your own to be a genius.

So keeping Gregg for $5 million and non tendering him (cubs non-tendered because closer market is so huge) was a smarter idea than acquiring Jose Ceda? Sure maybe he got hurt, but that's just unlucky. Just like Bowyer was with Castillo. And Ceda is supposedly pretty healthy now so who knows. 100% the smart move to get rid of Gregg. He wasn't that valuable in the first place. The only thing you can really point to here is Olsen/Willingham was def undersold unless Smolinski turns into Coghlan 2.0 in 3 years. And again, Hammer coming off injury and Olsen just being Olsen, what were we to expect back anyways?

Second, Ross was pretty awesome off waivers. And granted, he also fits the "wasn't brought into start initially" criticism, but who cares? They eventually PERFORMED their way to playing time and beat out their competition. What's the big deal? I'm totally cool with players earning playing time. I like the fact we routinely ACQUIRE players that are capable of performing at league average rates. For cheap. And controlled for years. This is good GMing.

Do I really make it seem like I think they are the best FO in the world?

They've fielded competitive team after competitive team with the lowest payroll in baseball, they do more good than bad. Yeah, the Boner etc. stuff is super frustrating, but I'm not going to harp on the bad when they have been in the hunt in the final month 3 of the last 4 years.

You can think they do a mostly good job and not think they are geniuses.

This is 100% correct.

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And lastly, per the myriad of "rush" jobs. Don't you not think this is a result of not having a $70 million budget to sign veteran relievers/other players, on 1 year deals so we are FORCED into calling up Jason Vargas and Vanden Hurk and West and everyone else for extended periods? This is desperation by the front office in trying to find something when their payroll will not let them get a legitimate option? As Bob said, it's pretty remarkable this team has moved forward through all of these painful payrolls, trade of Cabrera, etc. Does the front office not get any credit for this?

And I'm totally cool with agreeing that, if it doesn't change SOON with the new stadium, I will admit to being to protective over the front office and all of your concerns are right. I see the problems. Trust me, I do. But I really feel they are held back so much with the finances, they just have to operate like this. I see the Pudge, Delgado, other deals pre the 2005 "fire sale," and I see a ownership just waiting for revenue to allow the front office to spend. I expect smarter decisions with more payroll. In no way, do I see a $40 million payroll in 2012 and beyond. If it's not over $60 by 2012 and gets to league average by 2014, ownership sucks and defending them has been wrong. If we still have Bonifacio, Abercrombie, Borcard, Julio, and other skimping at at positions moments with legitimate payroll, I will conversely find nothing defensible about the FO.

But I really think payroll goes up, front office is able to do more things, and everything is all and well and we become a "normal" baseball franchise. Sorry if this is homer or believing everything loria/samson/new stadium media says, but I can't see how this shit continues for much longer.