TOP 10 Lists

[fish16]

The biggest problem is that every year for the last 4-5 years (since Yelich reached the majors), the Marlins top listed prospect has been the guy they most recently drafted. That is always a bad indictment on the system.

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Actually 3 of those guys listed in the top 10 are guys just drafted. Ouch. Also when guys like Richards, King, Poteet, Beggs, etc... don't get mentioned it always makes it apparent how quickly these guys who do the rankings look through the system. Often listing their own idea of "potential" over actual tangible production, and it always leads to guys who are out of baseball in a few years getting listed.

Does it mean that the guys who make the list are looking through the system too quickly or are you all just way to high on guys that dont have great stuff and are way too old for their level. Richards is understandable to be a little questionable about, but beggs is 24 in Greensboro and has 79 K's in 113 IP, King is 22 in Greensboro with 79 K's in 107 IP, and Poteet has reliever written all over him. Generally, when the lists dont value guys like that highly they are 2 old for their level and are getting by because they are older and more advanced than their competition and not because they have MLB type stuff. Obviously there are exceptions, but I have thought those guys have been getting overrated on this board all year. Its nice to see pitchers pitching well no matter where they are, but compared to most systems those guys arent impressive by any stretch of the imagination. Richards is the only guy out of those who looks like a potential MLB starter to me.

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Also, just as an aside, does anyone know anything about Richards story? Why was he undrafted and what is his stuff actually like? Is he successful because he has MLB type stuff or because he is older than his competition?

[tjfla]

Does it mean that the guys who make the list are looking through the system too quickly or are you all just way to high on guys that dont have great stuff and are way too old for their level. Richards is understandable to be a little questionable about, but beggs is 24 in Greensboro and has 79 K's in 113 IP, King is 22 in Greensboro with 79 K's in 107 IP, and Poteet has reliever written all over him. Generally, when the lists dont value guys like that highly they are 2 old for their level and are getting by because they are older and more advanced than their competition and not because they have MLB type stuff. Obviously there are exceptions, but I have thought those guys have been getting overrated on this board all year. Its nice to see pitchers pitching well no matter where they are, but compared to most systems those guys arent impressive by any stretch of the imagination. Richards is the only guy out of those who looks like a potential MLB starter to me.

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Also, just as an aside, does anyone know anything about Richards story? Why was he undrafted and what is his stuff actually like? Is he successful because he has MLB type stuff or because he is older than his competition?

They also have NO hype which means they won't be on a Top Prospect list

If u every wanna see Trevor Richards go to milb.com and watch a game. He throws Wednesday night so instead of asking for info then complaining about the info go watch him yourself and u can see his stuff

[dim]

Does it mean that the guys who make the list are looking through the system too quickly or are you all just way to high on guys that dont have great stuff and are way too old for their level. Richards is understandable to be a little questionable about, but beggs is 24 in Greensboro and has 79 K's in 113 IP, King is 22 in Greensboro with 79 K's in 107 IP, and Poteet has reliever written all over him. Generally, when the lists dont value guys like that highly they are 2 old for their level and are getting by because they are older and more advanced than their competition and not because they have MLB type stuff. Obviously there are exceptions, but I have thought those guys have been getting overrated on this board all year. Its nice to see pitchers pitching well no matter where they are, but compared to most systems those guys arent impressive by any stretch of the imagination. Richards is the only guy out of those who looks like a potential MLB starter to me.

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Also, just as an aside, does anyone know anything about Richards story? Why was he undrafted and what is his stuff actually like? Is he successful because he has MLB type stuff or because he is older than his competition?

I'd advise you to go back and look at recent top 10 Marlins ranking lists. Baseball America has made the same problem when judging players for years. They'll go with youth over ability any time (thus why the newest draft picks always get high spots).

I'm not calling any of these guys top 100 MLB prospects. But they damn sure deserve recognition in our list (I remember Desclafani getting screwed in some Marlins prospect rankings back in the day because of some of the backwards thinking that takes place).

I'm also not overrating them at all. Prospect rankings should be based on guys who look like they can eventually reach the major leagues and how close they are. Guys like Beggs, Richards, King, etc..., despite they're age and low level, are closer to being major league players than A-Rod's nephew.

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I'm not sure why you even felt the need to argue it. I simply stated those guys deserve recognition when it comes to our own system. None of those guys would be on any actual national rankings, but they damn sure deserve spots over non-first round 2017 draft picks.

[tjfla]

MLB.com Midseason List is out(Ouch what a terrible system-still worst in baseball)

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=mia

Richards is #18,Marinez is #26 and Kolek #5

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The lists arent based on stats which is why guys like King,Beggs,Richards aren't on them. While they look great,the guys base the rankings on stats,projection and hype. If u arent taken high in the draft then likely won't be on the list unless u show alot. Example Joe Dunand is #14. Why?? Hasn't played since drafted and wasnt projected in Top 125 but went early so he gets hype. As soon as they see he sucks he will drop. Beggs has nice stats but was a 16th Rd pick and is 24yrs old in Low A Ball-if he was 19/20 be totally different

[dim]

My argument wasn't for any specific player. It's just that this happens every year. There's a reason Wittgren never got ranked back in the day when he was more likely the reach the majors than half the guys listed in the top 10.

[fish16]

I'd advise you to go back and look at recent top 10 Marlins ranking lists. Baseball America has made the same problem when judging players for years. They'll go with youth over ability any time (thus why the newest draft picks always get high spots).

I'm not calling any of these guys top 100 MLB prospects. But they damn sure deserve recognition in our list (I remember Desclafani getting screwed in some Marlins prospect rankings back in the day because of some of the backwards thinking that takes place).

I'm also not overrating them at all. Prospect rankings should be based on guys who look like they can eventually reach the major leagues and how close they are. Guys like Beggs, Richards, King, etc..., despite they're age and low level, are closer to being major league players than A-Rod's nephew.

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I'm not sure why you even felt the need to argue it. I simply stated those guys deserve recognition when it comes to our own system. None of those guys would be on any actual national rankings, but they damn sure deserve spots over non-first round 2017 draft picks.

And again, you are overrating them. Whether they should be in our top 10 is debatable, id argue that I agree Richards should be and maybe Poteet, but beggs and King just arent impressive in the slightest. They are not only way too old for their league but they arent getting an amount of swings and misses that would be impressive even if they were the correct age for their league. That indicates more experience and being older than raw talent that indicates any sort of major league potential. Part of that is the marlins idiotic handling of their own pitchers and where they place prospects, which we could all complain about for days, but simply put 2nd and 3rd rounders who weren't over drafted probably do have more major league potential.

there are tons of examples like Desclafani, who I was always high on and wondered why he wasnt more highly ranked, but he was 23 and 24 in AA and AAA and got K rates of around 9 per 9 IP, whereas King and Beggs are getting way less than 9 per 9 IP as 22 and 24 year olds in Greensboro. Its always great to see guys getting results, and ive consistently argued against the marlins conservative handling of pitchers, but what they are doing is just not very impressive. If guys like Dunand and other early round picks from this past year are judged by scouts around the league to have some sort of major league potential, that is worthy of being ranked higher than those guys who in any other organization would have trouble cracking the top 30. Results do matter obviously, but age of prospects is critical to evaluating their true potential.

And again, Im agreeing that richards should be in the top 10, what he is doing is impressive, he is showing hit and miss stuff, and he isnt unreasonably old for his level and he is also doing it at a higher level than those other guys. Not being in the top 10 doesnt mean they arent getting recognition, it just means scouts who do this for a living do not view them as having as much major league potential as guys like Dunand. You havent even seen Dunand play a game. He could turn out to be a huge bust, and that happens all the time because this is an imperfect process, but it is certainly reasonable to have him ranked ahead of guys who are way too old for their league and arent putting up stat lines indicative of future major league success.

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My argument wasn't for any specific player. It's just that this happens every year. There's a reason Wittgren never got ranked back in the day when he was more likely the reach the majors than half the guys listed in the top 10.

I was always high on Wittgren too, but I think a lot of that was just because of the limited impact relievers can truly have. I remember thinkign the same thing when Ramos was coming up years ago. Relievers in general just get ranked lower, and I sort of understand why. For example, Craig Kimbrel's career high in WAR according to fangraphs is 3.3 and he had another year of 3.2, but he's been around 2 every other year. He is one of the best relievers of this generation. Last year, Martin Prado had a 3.3 WAR and while he was certainly solid, I dont think he was spectacular by any stretch of the imagination. The rankings just place more value on position players and SP's because they can have a much bigger impact.

[Ralph]

Whatever happened to Humberto Mejia? Dude hasn't pitched all year. Is he hurt?

[tjfla]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minor...U72u3vlKtzE.97

BA Top 10

1. Trevor Rogers, LHP
2. Braxton Garrett, LHP
3. Brian Anderson, 3B
4. James Nelson, 3B
5. Dillon Peters, LHP
6. Brian Miller, OF
7. Edward Cabrera, RHP
8. Joe Dunand, SS
9. Merandy Gonzalez, RHP
10. Brayan Hernandez, OF