Kolby Copeland, CF

[HUGG]

I mean, the NFL Draft is a dumb comparison because they don't draft them out of high school. If they did, they would drop because of stuff they did in high school.

And what's wrong with blaming him for getting caught? It's bad judgment. Find a ride or something. Oh, he didn't do anything wrong cause 90% of them do it. That's stupid.

At the end of the day, I personally don't care that much, but I would never blame a team for sliding a guy down their board for doing stupid shit.
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I mean, honestly, that high school NFL Draft thing was the worst.

That's a league that drops guys down their board for anything and everything and currently is having an issue with their teams asking players if they like girls.

[Mainge]

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not condoning what he did. He's one of many fucking idiots.

But a teenager drinking isn't some kind of huge red flag that should have told us he's going to be an issue, like mk7 is saying.

[emkayseven]

I'm not saying drinking underage is an issue, but a DUI is an issue no matter what age you are. It's just particularly troubling that he got his when he was 17. If you're 4 years underage you definitely should not be driving drunk.

All I'm saying is, when you draft a young player you have to do numerous projections. A kid that was dumb enough to get caught drinking and driving - not just drinking, but then driving - at age 17 is likely to do something stupid again. Like I said a DUI is a stupid fucking thing at ANY age, but if you're 17 it's like 10394821 times stupider. I don't mean to sound like the old guys in the Moneyball movie looking at players' girlfriends, but the bottom line is you've got a pool of like 1000 kids to choose from and after the first 15 or so it's a relative crapshoot. Might as well not waste a half million bucks on someone with a giant blemish on his personal record who isn't outstanding in some other way.

[Beef]

Yeah, the NFL is stupid.

But I don't think you can say this guy was more likely to have more trouble down the road because he had a DUI as a kid.

It's bad judgment, but it's bad judgment that most everyone else his age has. I don't think Mainge said he didn't do anything wrong. I think the point is that it doesn't mean he's going to find trouble down the road. Just like it doesn't mean all those others did find/are finding/will find trouble because they also drove drunk as kids.

Like I kind of said earlier, there's probably a high percentage of folks with a DUI as a kid that don't have other trouble down the road, there's lots who don't have a DUI as a kid who have one later on but it couldn't be "predicted" or "projected" because they weren't caught doing anything wrong early on, there's lots who don't have a DUI as a kid but get in other trouble down the road and there's lots who don't have a DUI as a kid who have a DUI later on as a Todd.

It's probably unfair to blindly give some predictive value to getting in trouble as a teenager doing something that most teenagers do and to pretend that because those other ones don't get caught, they have less of a likelihood of being a trouble draft pick down the road. It's probably mostly completely random. A bunch of folks might get in trouble and be trouble. A lot might get in trouble and it was a one time thing. A lot might not get in trouble even though they are actually more trouble than other folks who got in trouble.

Ya know?

Hugg's right about the NFL thing though. They drop guys for stupid reasons and most of the time, if the player is good, those teams probably regret not taking a guy because they think he's going to be any more trouble than most of the league because they smoked marijuana as a college freshman.

[Mainge]

I'm not saying drinking underage is an issue, but a DUI is an issue no matter what age you are. It's just particularly troubling that he got his when he was 17. If you're 4 years underage you definitely should not be driving drunk.

All I'm saying is, when you draft a young player you have to do numerous projections. A kid that was dumb enough to get caught drinking and driving - not just drinking, but then driving - at age 17 is likely to do something stupid again. Like I said a DUI is a stupid fucking thing at ANY age, but if you're 17 it's like 10394821 times stupider. I don't mean to sound like the old guys in the Moneyball movie looking at players' girlfriends, but the bottom line is you've got a pool of like 1000 kids to choose from and after the first 15 or so it's a relative crapshoot. Might as well not waste a half million bucks on someone with a giant blemish on his personal record who isn't outstanding in some other way.

I'd agree if it was something like heroin or something less common, but the sad fact of the matter is that a lot of these kids drink and drive.

Of the 6 professional ballplayers I personally know, 4 of them have driven drunk and underage that I know of. The only difference between this guy and them, is that this kid happened to get pulled over. The guys I know that did that aren't any less stupid, they just weren't arbitrarily caught.

[Beef]

Most people are probably much dumber at age 17 than they are five years down the road. But, since most of his friends and his fellow draftable players have probably done the same thing and just not gotten caught, it's probably not really fair or even the best idea to rule him out because it's actually on his record. Most of them are doing it and have done it, so it's the same amount of dumb and the same bad thought process for those folks as well. I just don't see how it's particularly troubling that he got it at 17. That's an age when you can finally drive and an age where start to drink with friends often and an age where you can't drink at home because you'll probably get in trouble, so they go somewhere else and then have to drive home. I think it's less troubling at that age. If you make a really stupid mistake later, after you probably should have a matured thought process, it's probably more troubling to me.

Also, I think assuming that all those other kids don't do those things because they haven't been caught isn't the best way to do it either, but that's basically what you're doing if punishing one for finding that trouble.

[HUGG]

66.7% of all professional ballplayers drink and drive when underage.

Source: Mainge

anyway, yeah I didn't mean to imply you were condoning it

I just don't have an issue with Polky's point of view. Why even risk it?

[Beef]

And then someone who did get in trouble at a younger age finds some trouble down the road and people just say, well of course he did, look what happened before. I don't think you can attribute that to his earlier trouble/DUI, but because something exists, that what happens.

[Mainge]

anyway, yeah I didn't mean to imply you were condoning it

I just don't have an issue with Polky's point of view. Why even risk it?

Because they all do it and it's not a real risk.

[HUGG]

Tim Tebow doesn't

[Mainge]

I bet you that number is close to 50%.

[HUGG]

I think 50 is probably about right.

That's half, not all.

[Beef]

I just don't have an issue with Polky's point of view. Why even risk it?

Because why risk not drafting someone you think might be good because of something that is probably generally not indicative of whether or not a particular person will have "issues" down the road?

(something about if the Marlins think someone is worth drafting, they're not worth drafting)
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I think 50 is probably about right.

That's half, not all.

I think he means Tim Tebow spends 50% of his waking hours drinking and driving.

Also, if it's half, that's a huge amount of players not falling in the draft despite having the same "issue" at a young age as a kid who gets/got caught.

[HUGG]

ehe I wish that were true about Tebow

anyway, my interest in this has totally died, I tap out

[Mainge]

I think 50 is probably about right.

That's half, not all.

Your draft board must be pretty small.