Miami/Kansas City

[PitchingWinsGames]

Also, with regards to Ralph, Mike Trout doesn't crack the BA Top 100 list in CSBC

He is Bobbob's 7th best according to them, but realistically I'd peg him around top 5 in bob's system.

His ratings are: (50 INT/86 WE/19 years old - very good )

CON 35/72
GAP 26/82
POW 10/33
EYE 22/62
Avoid Ks 21/63

Just by comparison, when I traded Miggy to Ralph, he traded me 23 year old OFer John Drenner

CON 66/73
GAP ??/64 (somewhere in the low 60s?)
POW 39/59
EYE 68/65
Avoid Ks ??/55 (somewhere around the 40s?)

[Ralph]

Yea, DColts was just mentioning him to me. I thought he'd be better I shoulda had csbc open but I fucked up. As commish u can veto any trade. And as owners they can vote for a trade not to go through and Id be happy with that. But Bob def getting raw end of deal here.

[Bobbob1313]

You should only be taking this vested an interest in battling this if you feel as though your offer is threatened. If you made a fair offer, heck, according to you Ralph ASKED for Trout, you should be fine.

Everyone in the league now knows exactly what Ralph was willing to accept and what my specific offer is.

If you rescind this deal and you really think it's fair to me that the entire league knows what my offer is, then you Should mandate that all trade discussions be done in public. It's only fair.

[PitchingWinsGames]

I'm not going to outright veto this and never planned on it. And if the league as a consensus decides to vote against it, that's entirely out of my hands.

All I said, from the start, was to wait. See if someone gives you something more. Like I had been saying to Bob, if this is a move you and he really like, then there's not much to worry about. The trade can't go through till Thursday anyways.

My issue isn't defending Ralph or accosting bobbob or anything like that.

Trades in this league aren't nearly as common as, realistically, they probably should be. I get IM's and PMs regularly complaining about how nobody trades and then, case in point, Ralph didn't really find out he had to make a move until the file is posted and before I even finish looking at it... boom, trade's up.

I reiterate, if you're both cool with it, then no big deal and things'll be copacetic come Thursday.

[Bobbob1313]

I've always been under the assumption that once a trade is publicly agreed on and posted, people werent necessarily able to back out. You are telling Ralph he can (after, of course, hearing that people think it's a shitty deal, something that surely woulnt affect his opinion.) Do i have that wrong?

[PitchingWinsGames]

In this case, after I said it'd be side-tabled till tomorrow night, sure.

Stop acting like this is a witch hunt against you, Bob. I don't care who made this trade, 5 minutes after the sim, I would have called attention to anyone and I'd hope the same would happen to me.

But you yourself qualified that statement "weren't necessarily able to" meaning that they could, at the 11th hour decide to rescind. And let the record show that I don't have a problem with that. (Let the record also show that if the trade has been input and the sim has been run, the owner is SOL).

Very rarely do I speak up or intervene in anything in this league, so I wouldn't unless I thought it was something worth mentioning.

[Bobbob1313]

I'm not saying it's personal to me. I'm saying that making up rules and enforcing them as you go along is not fair.

[PitchingWinsGames]

Again, I didn't veto this trade. There is no hard and fast rule being "made up" to enforce.

You have plead your case a dozen different ways saying that Ralph asked for Trout, wanted Trout and made the actual offer, in addition to posting this. By all means, you should be the curmudgeonly old guy with his arms folded in the corner, comfortable you'll get him.

Your concern is that someone will top your offer. Your concern, then, should be that you lost the advantage of timing, as opposed to the advantage of a (potentially/theoretically) better offer. Which REALLY matters more? I'm more concerned with the well being of the league as a whole, which, by my standards, should not be measured with a stopwatch.

Ralph wants this trade? Cool, then Thursday night, I'll see this thread and two agrees and move on. But, if Ralph gets a better offer and decides he wants to take that, I'll put that in. That's it. How is this different than literally any other situation with the exception of the fact that I called public attention?

The same outcome could have happened if I PM'd a discussion to Ralph asking him to reconsider and giving him comparable information as I've posted already. However, I prefer to not be behind the scenes for such things.

[Bobbob1313]

In no other trade thread does the commissioner explicitly say "This isn't real," move along.

[DColts]

I'd veto this too.

[PitchingWinsGames]

I'm not saying that here, either. Bob, you're better than this. You know as well as I do that this isn't about a false need for precedent when you said yourself that it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities that an owner back out at the 11th hour of a trade without repercussion.

Again, this could have had the same outcome (an extension) had I PMd Ralph with most of these points. There's obviously no guarantee at this point, but I'd like to think I could have made a reasonable enough case that getting him to accept the side table option would have been fair.

The only difference is I made the comments publicly, as I should have.

[Bobbob1313]

I always assumed that once a trade was posted and agreed by both sides, you were pretty much bound to it. Am I the only one who thought this?
--------------------

I'm not saying that here, either. Bob, you're better than this. You know as well as I do that this isn't about a false need for precedent when you said yourself that it wasn't out of the realm of possibilities that an owner back out at the 11th hour of a trade without repercussion.

Again, this could have had the same outcome (an extension) had I PMd Ralph with most of these points. There's obviously no guarantee at this point, but I'd like to think I could have made a reasonable enough case that getting him to accept the side table option would have been fair.

The only difference is I made the comments publicly, as I should have.

What I said was not that someone can back out at the 11th hour.

What I said was that despite there being no rule one way or the other, it was generally understood that once a trade was posted, a player would not back out. I would assume most of us operate under that pretense. And it should be a rule then. Just because there is a gap between the sim date and the acceptance does not mean that is a "review period." You review the trade before you accept. Once it's accepted by both and posted, it's just a technicality that the commissioner has to push a button.


Also, the difference between handling this in PM and public is vast, IMO.

[Ralph]

Felt like pulling a Josh Beckett to Texas here but it had been agreed to by both parties. Tried to expand trade didn't work out or better yet someone had no interest. I'm not gonna be a little bitch and cry about it. Trade is complete on my behalf if the commish and other owners have problems they do whatever they want.

[PitchingWinsGames]

done